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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Taking this discussion from the "are we going too fast now" thread...

In my best 2hr-meeting-corporate-tool voice: (Beuller?)[ul] [li] recce is useful only to experienced teams [/li] [li] recce is a dumb idea for Club rally and maybe even a lot of the National "Pro" folks [/li] [li] one pass is insufficient [/li] [li] a "parade" is also not a good idea [/li] [li] the folks that would benefit are likely willing to pay for the privilege [/li] [/ul] Howzabout this: [ul] [li] TSD format with reasonable speeds and one-minute intervals [/li] [li] 6 p.m. to whenever to do the whole course, once on Wednesday, once on Thursday [/li] [li] Friday for crew recovery and final note production [/li] [li] $1000 per crew for the privilege [/li] [/ul] Already I'm seeing a problem with splitting up the "Pro" field between the "National Club" folks and the Manufacturer teams. That goes to the goofy way the series' are set up. Perhaps this is a way to force the issue.

andy

edited for schtupid emoticon
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Some good points. I suppose I should have mentioned in my initial post that I wasn't necessarily presenting any conclusions, just trying to offer some talking points in an informal manner to keep the discussion going in a new thread.

I don't have any experience in the area so my contributions are a bit clueless. I realize this. I'm just standing here with a stick, poking at the dust cloud.

That said, I agree with Mustafa that if recce is workable for the club level, it stands to reason that would be used. Right now, there aren't many club folks in N.A. that could make full scientific use of recce, but if the sport continues to grow on the low end, recce will probably develop as a common element in club competition as it has outside N.A.

Recce causes a definite safety problem in that the recce itself needs to be managed safely. There will always be someone tempted to turn around and run back up the stage "to get one more look at that apex," or slow down to a crawl on open sections so they can take the difficult bits at 7/10ths in their rental. The combination makes my skin crawl. The slim majority of the injuries and incidents I hear about from the rest of world take place during recce. Being less glamorous, I assume that it is underreported compared to stage incidents, meaning that recce likely generates more real-world safety incidents than the actual events. Without seeing actual data, this will be my assumption.

I'm just not too keen on "open recce". I don't think we'll ever have the manpower to patrol well enough.

One reason for the 1 minute intervals as opposed to a nose-to-tail parade is dust. If dust isn't that big a deal, we could eliminate the intervals and TSD aspect.

Another way to encourage gentlemanly behavior is to score it like a TSD. Barring sweep-verified breakdowns, if your TSD score on a certain leg breaks a certain threshold, you start the rally 10 seconds (or 20, or 30, or whatever) in the hole.

I disagree with the idea of banning race cars from the recce. For a fair number of club teams, the race car is the only team vehicle that can be counted on to to make it through the course in a timely manner. If the recce is controlled adequately, bizarre episodes of red mist will be avoided. If the race car DNFs the recce, well, I don't think the team should be penalized, but, c'mon!

...and if a certain manufacturer team doen't want to expose their bafflingly fragile unobtanium transmissions to a couple hundred miles of unnecessary transit, they can use their nifty dealer cars instead. The best recce cars would be anything with decent shocks and sturdy tires. Whether that is the race car or not is no concern of mine.

The scenario I have in mind, with Oregon Trail as a model, is this:[ul] [li] tightly controlled TSD format or nose-to-tail parade format [/li] [li] at least one pass through the whole course Wednesday after six p.m. [/li] [li] at least one pass through the whole course Thursday night after six p.m. [/li] [li] [strong] one direction only! [/strong] [/li] [li] it may make sense for the organizers to run the recce course through individual sections more than one time while the recce is at the location -- this may make it possible to get three or four passes of the entire course over the two days [/li] [li] A fee more in line with a two-day TSD, perhaps $50 per club crew, $200 for a "pro" crew [/li] [/ul]

I'm definitely tailoring this scenario to my concerns about safety.

It's not that I don't trust you all not to be idiots, I just, well, don't trust [strong] anyone [/strong] to not be an idiot occasionally. Especially me.

andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Well, I didn't want to take an ideological position, I wanted to try to figure out some ideas that would work -- because I'm probably the guy who'll volunteer to work the thing, if the ORG decides to give it a shot.

I appreciate Trevor's position. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I defer to the other OT organizers to make that call. With the format I outlined, though, we should be able to realistically accomodate any number of crews.

Experimenting with recce on smaller events first is good from an organizer perspective, but it is the more experienced competitors that will make the best use of it and spread better knowledge through the community. For that reason it may be best to start with the national events, on a voluntary basis with no "deadlines" for upgrading events that aren't able to support it. Mandates suck.

Beyond that, I still have some questions about the mechanics. How does nighttime affect notetaking? Lots? Less? Minimal? How about dust? The combination? We need more opinions from folks that have done rallies with pace notes. Mr. Samli, you have the floor.

andy
 
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