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Marketing through Motorsports
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As I write this, 90 votes have been cast in a recent recce poll, with reasons of Safety and Performance representing almost all the choices made, and those two split almost evenly.

I wonder: how many of these votes came from organizers? Are an organizer's motives different from a competitors?

I'll make a wild guess, and some crazy observations.

Wild guess: organizers offer recce PRIMARILY because they believe it's what the competitors want, and they need competitors in order to have a viable, affordable, fun rally.

Crazy observation: The ease of reconnaissance, e.g., how the organizer mechanizes reconnaissance, can vary based on reasons to have recce. In this context, "ease" implies:
  • scheduling (not just the recce itself, but registration, tech and event start too)
  • the event route (repeated stages or stage sections)
  • clarity of recce route, especially if different from the event route
  • documents required by competitors (route book, maps, supplement materials not provided by organizer)
  • cost to competitors
Crazy observation: Here's my take on how recce mechanization may vary based on the organizer's reasons for offering reconnaissance:
  • Safety: you're going to do everything possible to make recce available: schedule, clarity of route, documentation.
  • Performance: you're going to make recce reasonably available: schedule may be tough for small teams or low bucks teams.
  • Challenge: you're going to make recce available, but you'll add a TSD flavor to your documentation, or just send them out on their own, counting on the competitors to determine what they need and how to get there.
  • Flavor: you'll pattern reconnaissance on how the WRC (or some other group) does it.
  • Cost: you'll make recce accessible to the bulk of the competitors, especially in terms of schedule. You might choose a more compact route, or with more repeated road sections/stages, to minimize recce time.

These lists are by no means exhaustive nor authoritative. Rather, I offer them as talking points to stimulate further discussion.
 

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don't cut
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As an organizer, I can state simply why recce would be made available, it brings in more income that it costs. Recce does cost the organizers something. So for recce to be offered, it must bring in enough more entrants to pay for it. Yes organizers care what the rally costs entrants for the exact same reason. Too high of cost to the entrant, less entrants, less income to us. It is all a balancing game.
 

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Income

As an organizer, I can state simply why recce would be made available, it brings in more income.
I'm glad you said income, and not profit (a word that I believe does not exist in Rally).

I think SAFETY is the most important reason for recce, if it saves one competitor from being injured or one race car from going home "balled up" on the trailer it is worth every penny it costs everyone. No one is forced to participate in recce, if a team can't or doesn't want to .....so be it. More of a "recce window" could be good but that would tend to give an advantage to local teams. Perhaps the idea of making recce (3 pass only) also available by appointment during the two weeks before the Rally, may not be a perfect idea but it may work out better for some work schedules (some may like this better for car setup).

Just "brainstorming" here!

Just a side question, is there any sort of spellcheck available here? I need it!
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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As an organizer, I can state simply why recce would be made available, it brings in more income that it costs.
As far as I know, none of the recce events in Canada charge competitors a fee for recce. Some offer recce to non-competitors for a moderate fee. It is hard to tell if recce has brought us more entries, but entries in the Western Canadian Rally Championship are up since we adopted recce. Was it Recce or $100 oil, who knows.
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Confessions from a recce-addict

Recce is like crack. Once you try it you crave more, then exhaust your $ and leave on binge-recces, recce-addicts recce on credit and lose/quit their job and next thing you know, Dr Phil is knocking on the door for a recce intervention.

Seriously though, I can see that by every event offering recce, it may hurt the sport as teams can't enter as many events once they've exhausted leave or $ earlier in the season. Maybe a reason besides XGames invitations process was over that RA entries died off midseason.

What may give your event more entries now may be hurting the events following yours or your's the following season after recce-burnout kicks in.
 

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don't cut
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In general, a "safer" activity gives a lower insurance rate over a "less safe" activity. Consider building construction, a fire resistant type of construction has a lower rate than one made of wood construction. (Architects, the construction descriptions are generic only and not to be taken as gospel.)

I don't know that this is true with an inherently "unsafe" activity like car racing. It becomes more a matter of you can get insurance or not.
 

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Faster Mabricator
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In general, a "safer" activity gives a lower insurance rate over a "less safe" activity. Consider building construction, a fire resistant type of construction has a lower rate than one made of wood construction. (Architects, the construction descriptions are generic only and not to be taken as gospel.)
Richard, your examples of construction and insurance got me to thinking. Why in the world did I have to pay flood insurance when I purchased my 6th floor condo? If I'm flooded out that high up, we are all screwed. Blame the economy on the damn thieving insurance companies I say.
 

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Ibumpedmyknee,icannotcont inue
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Insurance companies come up with more dumb shit. I guess I know nothing about insuring an event. It was more a joke. But I can't help wonder... Does anyone have the statistics for crashes at rallies on Non-recce vs recce events?
 

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don't cut
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Richard, your examples of construction and insurance got me to thinking. Why in the world did I have to pay flood insurance when I purchased my 6th floor condo? If I'm flooded out that high up, we are all screwed. Blame the economy on the damn thieving insurance companies I say.
As a past insurance investigator, i.e. hired by insurance companies to prove their guy did not do it, I am of the opinion that insurance companies are run by Martians in Connecticut. I think Jens as a local, should investigate this.

But Dave, in answer to your direct question, as a condo owner, you also own part of the infrastructure which is that part of the building that holds your unit up. Some of it, including all the incoming utilities, are below flood level.
Richard
 

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don't cut
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Insurance companies come up with more dumb shit. I guess I know nothing about insuring an event. It was more a joke. But I can't help wonder... Does anyone have the statistics for crashes at rallies on Non-recce vs recce events?
Given every WRC event has full recce and still has lots of 'interesting' crashes, I would have trouble believing there is a true difference in the crash rate. The top competitors certainly feel safer with recce even if this is not proven by statistics. As a competitor, albeit a slow one, if it makes me feel safer, I am for it.

But how to make it affordable in terms of time is difficult.
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Threadjack for insurance ripoffs

But Dave, in answer to your direct question, as a condo owner, you also own part of the infrastructure which is that part of the building that holds your unit up. Some of it, including all the incoming utilities, are below flood level.
Pretty sure common areas are covered under the condo association's insurance which I pay for separately thru monthly condo fees. Wonder if ruptured waterbeds, broken fish aquariums or too much bubblebath in the turbo jacuzzi tub are claim worthy. Hate when those happen.
 

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Pretty sure common areas are covered under the condo association's insurance which I pay for separately thru monthly condo fees. Wonder if ruptured waterbeds, broken fish aquariums or too much bubblebath in the turbo jacuzzi tub are claim worthy. Hate when those happen.
Actually, yes they would qualify for flood damage claims, at least here in MI. My daughter decided to see how much TP she could stuff in the toilet :rolleyes: and flooded the basement. Covered as flood damage.....
 

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Diver/Co-driver
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Recce is like crack. Once you try it you crave more, then exhaust your $ and leave on binge-recces, recce-addicts recce on credit and lose/quit their job and next thing you know, Dr Phil is knocking on the door for a recce intervention.
That is probably the funniest thing I have ever heard!!! I'm dying laughing. But seriously enough about the condo... good discussion about recce here ;) Sorry, I must be one of those recce addicts.

I voted that recce is for safety. I feel SO much more comfortable being able to speak my notes and see them in front of me. The changes we make in the notes are for safety. Like, "that seems tighter than a 4....change it."

I agree, it must have some insurance value.

I would be VERY surprised if crash stats don't state that recce makes rally safer. But perhaps people are still going off the road for different reasons.

Events are more fun when you've seen the roads. They're a lot less stressful and you tend to make less mistakes. We already have a lot on our mind, it's nice to say "yup we did this yesterday, I know exactly where we are going."

Organizers: Please listen to me when I say I cannot make separate trips for recce to NY, PA, TN, WV!!!! It's impossible! If recce was by scheduled appointment 2 weeks prior we simply could not do it! Out of the question. I would have to get a lot more time off from work, a lot more money to fly or drive, it's just the worst possible thing that could happen to us.

I have put a lot of thought into the recce. I have been open ears about "free recce." If that's something I have to do then I will do it but it will be a huge headache while if you are the organizer and you know the best route from point A to point B then just whip up a route on a piece of paper. We will absolutely LOVE you for it!

I really prefer to do a low-key parade recce. The reason I prefer this is because A: more social (lets enjoy ourselves, that's why we're here) and B: I can't tell you how many times a sign has been missing or a note is wrong in the route book or map... it's helpful if everyone goes together led by an official then we KNOW we're in the right place or we're all completely lost. I have never had so much fun recceing than at STPR when they did this.

It has been brought to my attention that parade recce is not good in areas where local residents take notice. In an attempt to keep locals happy we should actually follow through with recce rules stating 35MPH or as posted. This can certainly piss people off if we're racing down their road when it's not closed off! If we are spaced out a little and we don't drive recklessly then can't we do it like that??
 

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pressing on tirelessly
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Wild guess: organizers offer recce PRIMARILY because they believe it's what the competitors want, and they need competitors in order to have a viable, affordable, fun rally.
Actually, for NNR just the opposite is true. We are not averse to offering recce, but the CRS conducted a poll of active competitors last year and the results of the poll showed that recce was a relatively low priority for the competitors who responded.

It should be noted that the set of competitors who responded in that poll probably has only a small overlap with the set of people who responded to the poll posted in this forum.
 
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