Special Stage Forums banner

Do you think Robin Hood Rally (RHR) is detrimental to the sport of Rally

  • Rally is Rally including RHR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, RHR is not detrimental to the sport of Rally.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
21 - 40 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,479 Posts
History lessons have nothing to do with this. They are racing today. I can't go to the local circle track and expect to race with a Snell 80 helmet and a car that only meets the rules from 30 years ago.
My current job function is a management position - and one part of that job is motivating employees to perform, or applying corrective action.

History lessons explain past behaviors and attitudes.

By understanding how things worked in the past, and what motivations a person, or groups of people may have, it's possible to predict future behavior, or engage that person/persons in a manner that is non-confrontational.

Example:
If I were guessing, I'd see that the passionate posters are trying to protect the sport of rally. I'd want to engage that person by acknowledging their passion and working from a common point of interest.

The RHR group appears simply to be ignorant of the current state of affairs. To productively engage with them, one would engage their enthusiasm for competition and driving while at the same time suggesting that their safety rules haven't kept up with the current state of the art and are no longer acceptable in contemporary society.


***
In either case, the role of communicator and motivator isn't to assign blame (initially) but to find the common ground that allows forward motion. Understand current motivations, past behaviors, and move the group beyond that to reach the desired end state. As a mediator, or manager, one requirement of the job is to always maintain the appearance of control so that the involved parties retain faith in you and the process. Faith implying an element of trust without solid proof.


It sounds a bit feel good, but I can tell you it's easier to get chickens back into their coop when they want to follow you into the coop rather than chasing them around while they're scared and confused. Folks could learn a lot about how to deal with other people if they'd spent more time raising animals...
 

·
codriveur
Joined
·
1,385 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
In either case, the role of communicator and motivator isn't to assign blame (initially) but to find the common ground that allows forward motion.
Engendering a sense of empathy tames most other emotions enough to move forward. (Bill Clinton I feel your pain)


It sounds a bit feel good, but I can tell you it's easier to get chickens back into their coop when they want to follow you into the coop rather than chasing them around while they're scared and confused. Folks could learn a lot about how to deal with other people if they'd spent more time raising animals...
The chickens should want to go into the coop, the chickens will go back in the coop even if they have doubts and mistrust if they think you have empathy for them.

Insurance claim settlement 202 the same as farming 101 :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
Trying to find my Rules for Organizers from 1980, the first year I helped organize an event. By then, the safety rules at least required roll cages for faster seeds. I think Seed 6 (then the beginners) could run with only a roll bar. But 4 point belts were required.

I don't think roll bars were required the first year Pro Rally ran but I could be wrong. However, back then roads were chosen because of roughness. If you went too fast, you ripped off suspension parts. :)
Back in the 70s a fast rally car had 150HP, the typical mildly modified 510 / Saab / Volvo rally car had barely 100.

As far as fast street cars, Car & Driver did a test in 1975 to find the fastest (top speed) car available in the U.S...a 130MPH L-82 corvette.

Now some econoboxes have 150HP, and every new corvette sold this year will do 190MPH....cobalts and neons rolled off the showroom floor as 150MPH cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,246 Posts

·
Need ride. Please send money.
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
My current job function is a management position - and one part of that job is motivating employees to perform, or applying corrective action.

History lessons explain past behaviors and attitudes.

By understanding how things worked in the past, and what motivations a person, or groups of people may have, it's possible to predict future behavior, or engage that person/persons in a manner that is non-confrontational.

Example:
If I were guessing, I'd see that the passionate posters are trying to protect the sport of rally. I'd want to engage that person by acknowledging their passion and working from a common point of interest.

The RHR group appears simply to be ignorant of the current state of affairs. To productively engage with them, one would engage their enthusiasm for competition and driving while at the same time suggesting that their safety rules haven't kept up with the current state of the art and are no longer acceptable in contemporary society.


***
In either case, the role of communicator and motivator isn't to assign blame (initially) but to find the common ground that allows forward motion. Understand current motivations, past behaviors, and move the group beyond that to reach the desired end state. As a mediator, or manager, one requirement of the job is to always maintain the appearance of control so that the involved parties retain faith in you and the process. Faith implying an element of trust without solid proof.


It sounds a bit feel good, but I can tell you it's easier to get chickens back into their coop when they want to follow you into the coop rather than chasing them around while they're scared and confused. Folks could learn a lot about how to deal with other people if they'd spent more time raising animals...
Matt... you have officially become that which you dispised. I weep for your soul. ;)
 

·
Toltec Rally Team
Joined
·
866 Posts
Back in the 70s a fast rally car had 150HP, the typical mildly modified 510 / Saab / Volvo rally car had barely 100.
In 1980 I added every Abarth part I could to my Fiat 850 Spyder: hot cam, shaved and PnPd the head, ran 94 octane and it only put down 46whp. The Wabbit GTi blew its doors off w/ ~85whp

Times have changed....
 

·
Spectator Wrangler
Joined
·
831 Posts
I don't think roll bars were required the first year Pro Rally ran but I could be wrong. However, back then roads were chosen because of roughness. If you went too fast, you ripped off suspension parts. :)
Roll(over)bars required for open cars only. All cars 1976 or so.
 

·
don't cut
Joined
·
4,075 Posts
Roll(over)bars required for open cars only. All cars 1976 or so.
I did not go to my first performance rally until 1978 IIRC. And I did not compete until 1981 although I was chief of scoring for both Big Bend Bash and Chisum Trail prior. I don't think my SAAB 96 really needed :) a roll cage although it had one to meet the rules.
 

·
don't cut
Joined
·
4,075 Posts
You know Don, I don't think so. But I could be wrong as the Production class did not start until 1979. So you very well may be right.
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
Perhaps my memory is foggy but I started in 1972 and don't recall that you could ever compete in a SCCA ProRally (which began in 1973) without at least a rollbar in the car, whether open top or sedan. Cages were definitely not required at that point though. I was competing on a student/minimum wage job income level then and undoubtedly wouldn't have spent the money on the rollbar for my 510 if it wasn't required when I first started.
 

·
Need ride. Please send money.
Joined
·
1,278 Posts
whaddya mean Richard? Just cuz a person could park a bus on top that SAAB? LOL or on top a Volvo for that matter...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
901 Posts
In the other thread about RHR from a few months ago that did not get reserected I remember asking R_A and others to make a statement to distance themselves;...hasn't happened yet. Looks like tacit approval.
Actually, Bernie, RA has been contacting rally organizers directly and asking them to contact landowners and road owners and assure them that the events we put on are not at all like the RH(na)R and to distance our events from that thing. So we are.

Just because JB et all haven't contacted you directly or responded to your post here (is any of the RA staff even on SS??) doesn't mean they don't know what's going on and aren't doing something about it.
 

·
don't cut
Joined
·
4,075 Posts
In reading through Texas rules and regulations in order to educate the county lawyer in Nocona (he told the county commissioners that they can not close any road for any reason. WRONG!), I came across the specific rules for filming on Texas roads. I doubt the RHnaR would be able to take place here.
 

·
Mä meen vittu sinne!
Joined
·
6,058 Posts
My vote shifted down. I tried to click:
No, RHR is not more detrimental to the sport of Rally.

RHR is a direct result of the X Games, Travis Pastrana, Ken Block, and Dave Mirra being involved in rally as a sport. Is RHR a stupid idea and are the organizers just asking for some serious lawsuits. Oh yeah.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
My vote shifted down. I tried to click:
No, RHR is not more detrimental to the sport of Rally.

RHR is a direct result of the X Games, Travis Pastrana, Ken Block, and Dave Mirra being involved in rally as a sport. Is RHR a stupid idea and are the organizers just asking for some serious lawsuits. Oh yeah.
I think you are about as far off base with this as a person can get. RHR has nothing to do with your stated influences.

There has been a history of similar events starting many years before Travis' parents were likely born, let alone Xgames.
Pikes Peak Hillclimb 1916 til present.
La Carrera PanAmerica 1950-1954. 1988 to present.
Cannonball Run 1971-4 times total
One Lap of America 1984 and up
Silver State Classic 1988 up
Targa NewFoundland 2001 til present.

I'm sure more than that.


And a bunch of non-sanctioned rallies held in the late 70s and early 80s.


No relationship to anything RA, Pastrana, XGames or any of us. Although a few people in the rally world did participate in some of these events.
 

·
codriveur
Joined
·
1,385 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
My vote shifted down. I tried to click:
No, RHR is not more detrimental to the sport of Rally.

RHR is a direct result of the X Games, Travis Pastrana, Ken Block, and Dave Mirra being involved in rally as a sport. Is RHR a stupid idea and are the organizers just asking for some serious lawsuits. Oh yeah.
Yeah right :)

BTW I said in a thread about RHR not reserected 2 things; RA should seperate themselves and protect the brand, and that this was the crop of the seeds sown by the xgames.

Proving you don't have to be JVL or Jens to be prophetic :)
 
21 - 40 of 54 Posts
Top