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Do you think Robin Hood Rally (RHR) is detrimental to the sport of Rally

  • Rally is Rally including RHR

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  • No, RHR is not detrimental to the sport of Rally.

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codriveur
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I and some others have been "on topic" in response to the whole Robin Hood Rally. I know such stuff can be annoying, borring, disgusting, fustraiting, horrifiying, or just plain numbing. ( I went alphabetical ) :)

So here's a poll. This is meant to allow meaningful comment with the least effort. I have tried to make it a "flat" poll meaning while my opinion is known most opinions can be expressed. I hope that worked out even though by nature posting such a poll is front loaded.

Votes are public. Yes I voted in my own poll.
 

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Leaving for NEFR in a fortnight.

I'm currently watching after a guinea pig, a leopard gecko, 2 goats, 16 chickens and 1 duck.

There are two non-running VW vans in my driveway, a motorcycle and a riding lawnmower with dead batteries, and somewhere- a raccoon that keeps trying to get into the chicken coop.

I'm too exhausted to care personally.
 

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codriveur
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Leaving for NEFR in a fortnight.

I'm currently watching after a guinea pig, a leopard gecko, 2 goats, 16 chickens and 1 duck.

There are two non-running VW vans in my driveway, a motorcycle and a riding lawnmower with dead batteries, and somewhere- a raccoon that keeps trying to get into the chicken coop.

I'm too exhausted to care personally.
I will trade you my racoon who has walked into the house 3 times in the past month. :)
 

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www.tommygunrally.com
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Maybe people are just tired of all the bitching and moaning on SS - I know I am.

It's funny I've read about SS bitching on what, 3 different forums/blogs in the last week (NASIOC, dirtyimpreza, jalopnik)? All the regulars have probably moved onto forums where every thread doesn't devolve into arguing about the 'good old days', how reality shows and stars suck, and what the next big idea is to bring rally into mainstream. It gets old fast.

Facebook groups and manufactured forum anger aren't going to change the world. Rally will survive. If it helps you, 99.9% of americans dont even know enough about rally to associate that dumb show with it.
 

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eating dust taking photos
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My problem with RHR is that this "outlaw" cluster fu** is running in the backyards of proper stage rallies so far.

I don't care that this event is happening, or that things like this will continue to happen.

My problem is simply that if you google "rally berlin, nh", a place where a properly put on rally happens to go to each year, all but one hit on the first page is about the RHR.

Having these kinds of events so closely run to properly put on events makes it very difficult to not get the two associated on some level. If you wanted to try to launch a new event up in the Northeast you'd have to be VERY careful talking about what other communities proper rallies have had a positive impact in. It is very easy to see more information about the RHR than the proper rallies, and once the RHR thing spins out of control that's a very negative picture of our type of motorsport that you may have to now overcome in addition to all of the other usual challenges.
 

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KB-AG in WRC? Awesome!
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After spending the majority of yesterday reading that, here's the only two items I would raise issue about:

1. The Website for RHR that as Jerry says, looks A LOT like the R-A site.
2. Town boards in areas where NASA, R-A hold events being confused about the difference between the Jersey Shore types thrashing their supercars on thier front lawns and actual stage rally as it's known world wide when it comes to R-A getting permissions.

Other than that, let them flirt with Darwin's offerings, you can't stop stupid.
 

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I've read it all and slept on it and have come to this. It is to the benefit of the "real Rally" community that the RHR is such a goat f&%k. really. If they were closer to running events like ours and made a mess, it would have a big bad effect on us. but since it's obvious they're street racing in school zones drunk, it's easy to diferentiate what we do.

These towns know us and when the questions come up just set their one page safety plan next to our 2 thick 3ring binders stuffed full! Done.
 

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codriveur
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've read it all and slept on it and have come to this. ...

These towns know us and when the questions come up just set their one page safety plan next to our 2 thick 3ring binders stuffed full! Done.
I think this is a great answer that didn't come up before.

Sleep ...it's a good thing.
 

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...the RHR is such a goat f&%k...

This thread has officially exceeded it's allowances for mentions of "goats". :D


Tangent question:

Did the standard of operations for "proper" rally events in the early 70s exceed those of this RHR?

All the issues with lax requirements and bizarre operational choices seems to harken back to the good old days of rally. Wouldn't any organization who did not engage the current state of the art be at risk to reinvent the wheel, and as such, resemble some incarnation of rally from days gone by?
 

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This was my reply to the driver's group , in response to the draft safety-committee letter they intend to present to the show producers. It really IS quite ironic that my housekeeper with 300hrs of slow-motion UTV driving experience...almost killed both my toddlers AND the 6yr old daughter of another RHR racer...the fellow whose M3 was wiped out by the Vette , in fact. (the owner of the BMW was not in the car he had his ELBOWS on the window-sill , and miraculously escaped without a scratch. That M3 rotates around his body.)

So now I guess I will RE-INFLAME those who took such joy in flaming me 2 days ago......because Iguess the only way any participants are going to go any further with this is if it's a hell of a lot MORE like a real rally race.

So for me on this site I guess there's no winning. As luck would have it though I was invited off-forum to some extraordinary rally experiences practically in my own backyard that should illustrate QUITE WELL how little I know from "watching Rally on TV" ( and live in spain ).

The man who will be in the left seat is one of our mutual heroes. I will be the guy inthe right seat with the very slick Stilo helmet....and color-coordinated barf-bag ;)

excerpt from my unfinished letter :
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http://www.rally-america.com/info/2010_Rally_America_Rule_Book.pdf

The distinguished driver from the State of Rhode Island , Rick , has a 9-liter Camaro.
He drives it very well ; but it’s approximately the size of THREE RALLY CAR ENGINES.

So I refer back to the Wikipedia “Group B Rally” ..” Killer B’s” email I sent previously.

There is no roll cage that will keep you from dying/injury if you hit a tree at 135++
The best rally cars in the world , the best drivers, the “Formula 1 of Rally” is WRC. Their cars are limited to 300HP ( all are 4wd ) but because of a technical loophole produce about 340HP in the midrange where a rally driver needs it most.

Some stuff is really basic (racing seats / 6pt harnesses / fire system / FULL cage / fuel cell (Poarch’s fuel tank could have easily ruptured in that impact) / no fabric tops or fabric panels of any kind. )

So we discussed this last time and “Frank from Miami” replied “Well I’m like you , Alan…..perhaps even more so…..I’m just here for fun and am driving at 58-62%.....I just want to promote the Anti-Bullying Charity I support”…..I don’t have any of that stuff on this car I’m using”.
And that was fine. I know Frank well enough now. I would trust him to drive one of my own cars. But that can’t be the point. Wheels fall off. Deer ( moose ?) run out on the road……throttles get stuck.

So we keep talking about “driving within our ability and not being a reckless idiot” but that’s just bullshit my friends. It means precisely nothing. I’m not going to opine or trust others to subjectively decide “ this guy in the 500HP car is a danger but THAT 500HP guy I trust to drive my kids to school”.

AN HOUR AGO everyone on my moto-ranch runs to vehicles in a panic “ THERE’S BEEN A ROLLOVER !!!”
I mutter under my breath “Oh that fuckin’ MARKO !” ………..No…..my 44yr old Mexican housekeeper who drives like a turtle on Xanax. With my 3 and 4 yr olds in the buggy and Marko’s 6yr old girl.
Everyone’s fine. But if that doesn’t illustrate my point ; nothing ever will. It was an off camber turn…she made one mistake ,after driving them for 4 years on a farm she knows like she was born on it.

So it’s not JUST about skill , or intelligence ,or attitude. We’re either all forced to be in cars that are survivable in a 100MPH impact into a stone wall and subsequent roll down a 15 foot embankment – or we’re all “ doing better than Stephan but falling far short of preventing a driver death”. I trust any number of you to lay out a “safe” course that I would run on. But does that mean no trees , no slopes , no ditches.

Good luck finding that except at a race track…….but that’s not why we’re here ; to race on racetracks. So the SAFEST COURSE WE CAN EVER MAKE , will in fact be inherently more dangerous than the WORST RACETRACK ON EARTH.

So that leaves us with 2 choices : survivable cars and safety equipment ; or an eventual fatality. Rally drivers still occasionally die DESPITE adhering to all of the above safety specs. It IS motor racing after all.
It sounds stupid - and I'm saying it facetiously– but I’d rather everyone proceed KNOWING they are doing the most stupid dangerous thing in the world…versus having the dreaded “false sense of security”.

The hillclimb guy Isent you the link to, who died last week was in a 911 just like many of our drivers. No roll cage. Dead.

So for me to sign a letter it has to be 50% workers / course safety / course layout and selection...and 50%the cars themselves. They don't have to all be 4wd "rally cars" .There are old-skool guys who still PREFER to rally even on gravel in 2wd drive cars....but they still have ALL the safety gear. I guess it's tantamountto " vintage racing" or something. Or the meek or elderly perhaps.

No, I jest actually, because the fellow who broke my balls the hardest on that rally racing site still prefers 2wd ;) Certainly requires mad-skills to keep it straight in the dust with no fwd. I wouldn't do it myself.....unless I was ina field like " rally-cross" around parking cones and haybales.
 

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codriveur
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
This thread has officially exceeded it's allowances for mentions of "goats". :D ?
What about sheep? Can we mention sheep? And we are still on target with racoons, right?


bentmettle;357479Tangent question: Did the standard of operations for "proper" rally events in the early 70s exceed those of this RHR?[/QUOTE said:
All the issues with lax requirements and bizarre operational choices seems to harken back to the good old days of rally. Wouldn't any organization who did not engage the current state of the art be at risk to reinvent the wheel, and as such, resemble some incarnation of rally from days gone by?
On the surface Matt I think that is a good question. Doubtless we have many survivors on SS of those times who may chime in.

Perhaps we have formalized ourselves into a corner and things like RHR are needed to fight out of it?

But, I really don't think that is it. I don't want to do stages in cars without basic safety. A few weeks ago I had thoughts three times about which trees we would meet and how to brace. I was in an older car (better then anything RHR requires) and most of what I thought about on the way home was what if... (I also thought about my relationship with the driver and his unsung skill that gets me past that with no worry, it was just my reading and seeing, he just did what I asked :) )

So Matt, I don't know what the lessons are to be learned from RHR. I think they are X% foolish. Rally as a whole was evolved past foolish, motorsport is about risk taking... it's ignorant to cut that finer. But we all try to take the risks...well? better? what's the word???

In the other thread about RHR from a few months ago that did not get reserected I remember asking R_A and others to make a statement to distance themselves;...hasn't happened yet. Looks like tacit approval.
 

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don't cut
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Trying to find my Rules for Organizers from 1980, the first year I helped organize an event. By then, the safety rules at least required roll cages for faster seeds. I think Seed 6 (then the beginners) could run with only a roll bar. But 4 point belts were required.

I don't think roll bars were required the first year Pro Rally ran but I could be wrong. However, back then roads were chosen because of roughness. If you went too fast, you ripped off suspension parts. :)
 

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I have a cat.
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History lessons have nothing to do with this. They are racing today. I can't go to the local circle track and expect to race with a Snell 80 helmet and a car that only meets the rules from 30 years ago.

I had a friend grind some valve lash shims for me last week who has a shop where he rebuilds old (60s and 70s) Indy and F5000 cars. When I asked if he'd run 'em when completed, he said "not me!" While old stuff is cool to look back and see where we've been, safety advancements happen for a reason, and ignoring them, especially when doing something like rally, is irresponsible.
 

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don't cut
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Tangent question:

Did the standard of operations for "proper" rally events in the early 70s exceed those of this RHR?

All the issues with lax requirements and bizarre operational choices seems to harken back to the good old days of rally. Wouldn't any organization who did not engage the current state of the art be at risk to reinvent the wheel, and as such, resemble some incarnation of rally from days gone by?
History lesson was in responce to this.

And agree saftey standards have evolved over the years.

Also, in the early days of rally, the safety requirements were still greater than those of the RHnaR. Just not sure of 1973 rules.
 

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and ignoring them, especially when doing something like rally, is irresponsible.
That seems to be the biggest thing about RHR: ignorance.

Ignorance about rules and safety regulations, ignorance about the effects the event could have on the greater rallying community, and just plain ignorance at the idea that this event has not been handled properly so far.

I really appreciate :rolleyes: the "I was embarassed when my wife did the hot pose thing". Really? Then why did she do it? Probably because this event screams of nothing more than some rich people wanting their 15 minutes of fame on TV. If you were truly embarassed, I doubt you'd sacrifice your dignity for a TV show that offers you what?

You can probably tell how I voted in the poll... ;)
 
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