[Josh Long]

no i'm not an expert, have never rallied but....

when you can go to a local pro rally event and win $2500

in snowboarding, local pro events have this type of money on almost a weekly basis.

the REAL pro events that draw the big names are in the 15,000 to 40,000 range

these are not the purse amts they are the first place figure and while local comps only pay to 3rd the big ones pay at least the top 5. i have done comps that paid to 15th.... but then again there were 175 people there.

ya need a bigger base

more entries = more purse

josh

 

[Kartwheel]

My local motocross track pays more for a pro class win than an SCCA "Pro"Rally does.

 

[Crash]

Try explaining to the Gent from Wales Friday night at the bar in Laughlin while watching Pro Rodeo on ESPN why the barrel racer's prize for first was something like $188,000.00

 

[Josh Long]

maybe start with just refunding the entries for the winner?

ALL WE NEED IS MORE ENTRIES........................................

JOSH LONG

 

[Trevor Donison]

>maybe start with just refunding the entries for the winner?
>
>ALL WE NEED IS MORE
>ENTRIES........................................
>
>JOSH LONG

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not...

More entries? I don't think that is the answer to lowering costs. If you have room for 80 cars, and have 130 trying to enter, it stands to reason that if you double entry fee you would still have half the teams sign up. Oversubscribed events give Pro only rallies a reason to raise their price.

 

[Timo]

Those in the off-road community were also fed up with their payback. Although the promoters ALWAYS pay back a percentage of the entry fee to the purse for the class, the racers wanted more. So, they formed semi-formal associations and created their own purses. You can see examples of this at: http://www.pro1600.com/about.htm, http://www.prodirt.net/why.html, and http://www.pro-10.com/rules.php

These groups of racers in the same class have created their own payback structure and points system. The unlimited classes have higher 'buy-ins' while the more budget classes have cheaper 'buy-ins'. This is new in off-road, but all the racers like it. They are seeing more money than ever. Unique to these groups is that they vote on which races to attend. The promoters then offer these groups incentives to participate in their races. Sometime this is a bonus to that class' purse or sometimes it's a reduced entry fee. It's a win-win because if a promoter lures one of these groups, he is guaranteed many more entries than he could have without one of these coalitions.

The coalitions also count their own points for a year end championship. Thus, you could have a "Pro Group 2 Championship" in your geographic region.

An easier, informal approach would be to simply have a side bet among those in each class. Everybody who wants to participate puts in $XXX. Payback the top 3, 4, 5 whatever. Taking a little cash home from an event is a good thing.

If done this way, the racers maintain more control of their money, rather than being dictated to by the promoter.

It works elsewhere...


Happy Motoring

 

[Lurch]

This is interesting, but it isn't a purse, really. It is reallocating fees. It is taking money from slow teams and giving it to fast teams. A proper purse may take some entry money but it is primarily sponsor money.

I don't want to take any money from the guys I beat in my class. I also don't want to give any money to the guys that beat me.

True purses require sponsorship.

 

[Jeff Hagan]

>True purses require sponsorship.

Or ticket sales - isn't that how the small circle tracks do it?

I don't think charging everyone admission to stand and watch a rally would go over well (and it's a direction I don't really want the sport to head in, personally), but figuring out ways to give extra things to the spectators who want them (for example, the VIP passes that were sold for Tall Pines) could be a significant money source if done properly. That could help pay for all sorts of worthy things, including swag for workers, lower entry fees, and even prize funds.

Jeff

 

[JB Niday]

Right Trevor... its a whole supply and demand scenario out there trying to screw you out of every entry fee nickle possible... cuz god knows the organizers are getting rich off the outragous entry fees.

Find a new organ to grind Trevor... entry fees go up because COSTS go up NOT because events are oversubscribed.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

 

[RallyVolvo]

swag for workers might be nice, because... It would seem to me that before we can handle larger numbers of entries, we need larger numbers of workers... If you only have so many stage teams, you can only run so many stages, no matter how fast each worker team races to the next stage set to open. Ofcourse, that is assuming pro events don't just up the nember of re-used stages...

Nick Polimeni

 

[Bruce]

>Ofcourse, that is assuming pro events don't just up the
>nember of re-used stages...

With rising entry numbers, many ProRallies are unable to re-use ANY stages, as they have a pass limit set by the road owners. This means more miles of road...more road use fees...more workers...

More entries does NOT necessarily mean more "profit" for the rally - sometimes just the opposite.

Bruce

 

[Trevor Donison]

>Right Trevor... its a whole supply and demand scenario out
>there trying to screw you out of every entry fee nickle
>possible... cuz god knows the organizers are getting rich
>off the outragous entry fees.
>
>Find a new organ to grind Trevor... entry fees go up because
>COSTS go up NOT because events are oversubscribed.
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

You read too much into my response. I didn't say it WAS happening, but that it COULD happen. Which event has the highest entry fee anyway (I do know the answer)?

I have been in the sport long enough to know how much it cost to enter an event in 1995, and its more than double that now even Excluding the cost of Notes. Has inflation doubled in the last 7 years (cut the value of the dollar in half since 1995)?

Most of the increase has occured in the last 2 years. At the current rate costs are rising, there will soon be only 6 (oops, Huyndai can't afford it anymore), so 4 ProRally entries and the rest running Clubrally where "our Club" thinks we belong anyway. When even the Manufacturers are dropping out because of costs, its time to at least get the costs to remain constant for a single year.

 

[Bruce]

Has inflation
>doubled in the last 7 years (cut the value of the dollar in
>half since 1995)?

No, but the price of putting on a rally is only marginally connected to inflation. Road use fees, for example, go up when the road owners decide they should go up.

>When even the Manufacturers are
>dropping out because of costs, its time to at least get the
>costs to remain constant for a single year.

All right, I'll buy that as a premise. Now your task is to tell me what the organizers should cut from their budgets if their costs go up. No sarcasm here...to hold prices, you must raise income or cut costs. Where would you suggest costs be cut?

Bruce

 

[Foghorn]

How about in some of those "extras" that seem to only be necessary because it is a "pro" event. By and large, "club" events are still managing to do it on less dollars. And we still get to go play in the woods. Isn't that the whole point anyway?

Kent Gardam

 

[Rich Smith]

How about a "No Frills" ProRally operation.

>Now your task is to
>tell me what the organizers should cut from their budgets if
>their costs go up. No sarcasm here...to hold prices, you
>must raise income or cut costs. Where would you suggest
>costs be cut?

Bruce,

Look to the cost difference between Pro-Rally and Club Rally operations. That is where you will find the FAT that can be trimmed.

Basic, no frills, ClubRally operation is your benchmark. American business has been getting "Lean & Mean" for about 20 years now. ProRally could too. There is no reason ProRally couldn't follow the "no frills" ClubRally lead, unless it didn't want to.

Rich Smith
Vive le "Pro-le-Ralliat"

Edit: And let's be sure to keep ClubRally a "no frills" operation.

 

[Bruce]

>How about in some of those "extras" that seem to only be
>necessary because it is a "pro" event. By and large, "club"
>events are still managing to do it on less dollars. And we
>still get to go play in the woods. Isn't that the whole
>point anyway?

Like what? Club events run fewer miles of road and can commonly run stages twice. The insurance is somewhat cheaper, and there are fewer people (competitors, crew, workers) to register and feed and entertain. Thus they CAN do it on less dollars. At the ClubRallies and ProRallies I've been associated with, they do pretty much the same things, but Clubs are able to do them cheaper because of smaller scale.

There is also the problem that as your event (Club or Pro) gets larger, some people necessary to the rally (landowners, headquarters, various suppliers) believe that you MUST be making a bundle, and charge accordingly...your own success makes the price rise...no one is willing to cut you a break or give you a free ride, because they KNOW you're a professional and taking at least some of it home. Nothing this big and complex could possibly be run by volunteers...

Bruce

 

[JB Niday]

Perhaps some organizer would like to share a proforma budget for an event to the world and demystify an event's unlying costs.

I'll willingly bet that the manufacturers are NOT an important contibutor to the cost increases. I'll also bet that no one's getting rich off us competitors.

It ain't a cheap hobby!

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

 

[RichardM]

>
>I'll willingly bet that the manufacturers are NOT an
>important contibutor to the cost increases. I'll also bet
>that no one's getting rich off us competitors.
Pushers, that is body shops and parts suppliers.

>
>It ain't a cheap hobby!
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com
Richard Miller

 

[Bruce]

RE: How about a "No Frills" ProRally operation.

>Basic, no frills, ClubRally operation is your benchmark.
>American business has been getting "Lean & Mean" for about
>20 years now. ProRally could too. There is no reason
>ProRally couldn't follow the "no frills" ClubRally lead,
>unless it didn't want to.

OK, fine...I agreed to that. Now tell me what's a "frill." ProRallies that I'm familiar with don't think they're providing many "frills." Make a list of stuff ProRally organizers are providing that you - and the workers - would willingly do without. If most of the competitors can agree on a list, I can assure you those things will be gone in a heartbeat.

Bruce

 

[Trevor Donison]

>Perhaps some organizer would like to share a proforma budget
>for an event to the world and demystify an event's unlying
>costs.
>
>I'll willingly bet that the manufacturers are NOT an
>important contibutor to the cost increases. I'll also bet
>that no one's getting rich off us competitors.
>
>It ain't a cheap hobby!
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

Perhaps if we had a National sponsor (like in the good ole days), then that could subsidize the number of SCCA Personel that attend every ProRally, and then the Sanction charge could go down.

JB, you obviously are waving the SCCA flag today, and I respect that. But, I reserve the option of having my own opinion, and I've been watching Performance rallying in the states since the late 70's.

A lot of people think this is the best time ever for ProRally. I happen to think when 20-30 teams were able to get enough contingency money to pay for their entry fee and most of their weekend that that was the best time in ProRally.

The road fees are going up because? Because road damage is substantially more than it used to be. Why is this? High horsepower 4wd cars and Manufacturer teams and the need for everyone else to try and compete with them.

I'll bet we could go through the itemized costs from the Organizers and determine that quite a bit of the increase in cost is a result of the SCCA Performance rally department decisions of the past 4 years.