[Flyboy]

I finally got the Lancer running again last night, so I thought I'd go out and see just how well rally tires work on pavement. Came up to a nice 2+R long that opens, kinda like the hairpin on Brockway. Turn in, pop the brake with my left foot and bury throttle. The back end came around and all four wheels broke loose, resulting in about the coolest powerslide I've done in while. As I left four nicely radiused black marks I pretty much justified all the long nights, spiraling credit card balances, and spent vacations. A quick countersteer and the car hooked up and shot away.

Yup, I think Brockway is gonna be pretty sweet this year after all. I may burn up a set of expensive tires, but it will be worth it. What a great sport!



Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

 

[rallytaff]

Where's the in-car video?

 

[DaveHintz]

Dennis,
Yup, gravel rally tires are really fun on tarmac. I've done autocross on proper autocross tires in a Miata and in two different RX7s, and I've driven many laps around what was formerly known as Seattle International Raceway on autocross tires (basically very sticky slicks).
None of those experiences were as fun as running tarmac stages on gravel tires (at Doo **** and RIM). Enjoy Brockway!
Dave
Car # 207

 

[Andrew Comrie Picard]

Well, I guess reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Terrific slides, yes, but terrible transitional control and truly awful braking.

Of course may also depend on which brand tire and which compound. Your results may vary.

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.

 

[mayhem83]

>
>Well, I guess reasonable people can reasonably disagree.

Nobody ever said Dennis was reasonable!

Mark

 

[Flyboy]

>
>Well, I guess reasonable people can reasonably disagree.
>Terrific slides, yes, but terrible transitional control and
>truly awful braking.
>
>ACP
>Flirting with the laws of physics.

Oh, I completely agree. What I did was an act of pure hooliganism, and really had nothing to do with going fast. With the stakes and the competition ratcheting up higher and higher at every race, it's nice just to go out and have some pure, unadulterated FUN once in while.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

 

[Matthew Johnson TRI Rally]

Dennis,

ROCK ON!

MJ


Matthew Johnson
TRIrally.com
MatthewJohnson.us

 

[t0940ds]

Those of us with FWD cars will carry two high grip pavement spares to be installed onto the front axle before we check into the start control. Coefficient of friction = 1.3 and we'll be gone!

 

[DaveHintz]

Andrew,
Of course you are right - we don't all have to agree on exactly what is the most fun. The fact is we are all rallying and we enjoy it, so maybe that's agreement enough!
Dave
Car # 207

 

[Adrian Wintle]

>Those of us with FWD cars will carry two high grip pavement
>spares to be installed onto the front axle before we check
>into the start control. Coefficient of friction = 1.3 and
>we'll be gone!

Let's see, lots of power and traction at the front, lots of squirm at the rear - should be fun! ;-)

As long as you don't have a flat on the stage before, that would work well. Of course, the tire change might be a bit rushed, since the transit is only 5 minutes long.

Adrian

 

[Kevin D]

I don't have a rule book in front of me, but aren't there rules against service outside a service? There is some kind of penelty too.
You will need to carry the two extra spares from the previous service which means through 4.57 miles of stage, make sure you can strap them down.
Transit before Brockway is 1.12 miles, you have 5 minutes that is also the time at the control. Yes you pass through Copper Harbor were the next service will be held, but remember no one can help you.
You may want to practice this tire change, remember the old tires and jack need to be securly strapped down in your car. If you show up with new tires and no used ones in the car we will have to assume you have had help from your service crew.
Don't even think of speeding through Copper Harbor to get to the control.
We can police for this, but we don't want to have to.

 

[Trevor Donison]

>I don't have a rule book in front of me, but aren't there
>rules against service outside a service? There is some kind
>of penelty too.
>You will need to carry the two extra spares from the
>previous service which means through 4.57 miles of stage,
>make sure you can strap them down.
>Transit before Brockway is 1.12 miles, you have 5 minutes
>that is also the time at the control. Yes you pass through
>Copper Harbor were the next service will be held, but
>remember no one can help you.
>You may want to practice this tire change, remember the old
>tires and jack need to be securly strapped down in your car.
> If you show up with new tires and no used ones in the car
>we will have to assume you have had help from your service
>crew.
>Don't even think of speeding through Copper Harbor to get to
>the control.
>We can police for this, but we don't want to have to.

I don't want to open a can of worms... but...

Unplanned service IS allowed by the rules. Changing two front tires on a transit would not be any different than changing two flat tires.

Its very ordinary for a car to be able to safely carry two tires. Prescott/Rim its always a good idea to have two.

And if some non crew related spectator happened to want to help, that also would be "unplanned service", just make sure they do not have a wrist band.

5 minute transit is a bit tight (you should have time to change 1 flat tire in transit, but thats another story), so that pretty much makes it impossible to change them and be on time, but heck, 2-4 minutes of penalty is only 24-48 seconds, if you're not running for a championship and want to have some fun...

 

[Lurch]

As long as he has 1/16" of tread left on those stickies at the end of the stage, I don't care what tires the Mopar boys put on their cars. If they can carry 4 spares and want to change all 4, so be it. But they can't run complete slicks.

Article 6.4.6
Tires, including spare, to be inspected for condition of sidewalls as well as tread and for absence of metal protruding from tread. Studded tires and similar tires containing metal protruding from the tread area are prohibitited. Further, all tires must have a minimum tread depth of 2/32", measured across the complete tread surface.

People change tires on transits all the time and, unless you SPECIFICALLY PROHIBIT racing tires, tarmac rally tires, performance radials, etc. in an addendum to your supp. regs, I think they are legal providing they have the required tread. Now. How do you word that one? Do you specify "gravel" tires? What is a gravel tire? I use my performance radials on gravel roads all the time. Does that mean they are a "gravel tire"?

Also, can you just run a groover at 3/32" depth (safety margin) over your slicks at, say, 6 spots from one side of the tire to the other and have your required "tread?"

I sure would rather use my tarmac rally tires (which, by the way, aren't legal without more grooving...no tread "across the complete tread surface." ), but will do fine on gravel tires. My tarmac tires would be too heavy to carry in the car to be worth the advantage.

By the way. The above rule was written for a different time with different tire technology. I will renew my letter writing campaign to get that one changed, too.

edited to remove the unintended smiley.

 

[Lurch]

Wow. I went out "testing" on pavement, both clean and dirty today with a set of gravel tires. All's I can say is I'm gonna be more sideways on Brockway than on a lot of stages!

 

[jimmy]

And, coming from Lurch, that is saying a LOT !!!


>All's I can say is I'm
>gonna be more sideways on Brockway than on a lot of stages!

press on,

 

[Walter Clark]

Intresting. Hoosier's new DOT A3S04/R3S04 and older sports car DOT tires have 2 circumferential (longitudinal) grooves, of course their road racing slicks have no tread pattern. I wonder how they would be viewed at scrutineering...

 

[Lurch]

not legal, by my reading. "measured ACROSS the tread."

 

[jimmy]

tire (tyre) legality ?

So, Lurch, by your reading, an F1 tire would NOT be legal?

>not legal, by my reading. "measured ACROSS the tread."

press on,

 

[Dave Cizmas]

I just plan on running my R compound Hoosiers for the stages before Brockway that way my poor little rally tires are not overheated.

From a safety point of view wouldn't running a set of tires that are made to run on tarmac would be safer than running a set of tires that are made for gravel?
Dave

 

[Lurch]

RE: tire (tyre) legality ?

correct. But maybe put a few grooves from side to side...lets say 4 or 6... maybe at an angle at 1/16" deep with a nice narrow blade and Nascar slicks would be acceptable...by my interpretation.

The rule clearly needs work.

My tarmac rally tires with pill shaped cutouts are not legal, though I think they are the most suitable tire and have a suggested (cross tire) groove for rain.

I would rather run on gravel tires than performance radials or racing tires, though. I don't think performance radials are made for jumping...kinda like putting 4 basketballs on your car and hoping they don't pop or bounce you into the wall.

Yup. I've run brockway on performance radials, racing tires, and tarmac rally tires. Might as well round out the experience and try gravels. Yay.