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codriveur
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1,385 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A little long but stick with me please.

In an earlier part of life I was involved in an ethnic based movement fractionalized by 3 organizational bodies. Each had a slightly different focus, each had the same membership pool, all three disagreed with about 1/3 of the other organizations platform and program,issues and philosophies and of course personality issues. Sound familiar?

All three wanted something bigger, better, positive to hang their star on. It was a national day of recognition, to be known and used by this community to better their self image and unite their communty for long term existance. It was determined the way to do this was through a national day of recognition, each tried independantly to get this national day of recognition, after many valiant efforts the three bodies where brought together by a White House liason to have a summit. They each thought it was going to be a pissing match and dragged their feet but they all showed. When they got there the liason explained they did not care what the differences where. They only cared if all 3 spoke with one voice. Otherwise go away was the message. A New organization was born, It allowed all three to operate in their own little worlds but most importantly it created dialouge, co-operation, and was the cause of all 3 organizations working to achieve what one alone could not.

Today by coincedence and presidential proclaimation is German-American Day.

If rally wants to survive in a stronger form and preserve the local power for the people who make it happen while advancing the sport I would ask the leaders of the sport to pick a date in early 2006 to convene a summit. My contribution to the process: I personally put up 500.00 towards the expenses of a conference room anywhere in NA. No BS.

Bernie
 

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Administrator Emeritus
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1,207 Posts
>If rally wants to survive in a stronger form and preserve the
>local power for the people who make it happen while advancing
>the sport I would ask the leaders of the sport to pick a date
>in early 2006 to convene a summit. My contribution to the
>process: I personally put up 500.00 towards the expenses of a
>conference room anywhere in NA. No BS.

Such an endeavor is already in the planning stages. Last I heard, they were looking at the Jan 6-8 weekend, near Little Rock, AR.

I'm sure more info will be forthcoming shortly.

Ben
 

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codriveur
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1,385 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I remember the thread, where is the confirmation, itinerary, list of principals who are going to show? As far as I know this was stalled in the face of all the good intentions.

Additionally such a summit/forumn that I'm talking about, one that takes the 3 NA organizations, gets them on the same page for a NA Championship or whatever it is determined is needed for the top tier guys so the sport can be uniformly promoted and advanced with one personality, TV/sponsorship package; and stops competeing for each others entry/membership/license fees needs to be confinded to principals lest it become a #### session.

My money is good for whoever needs the reimbursment.

Bernie
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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3,979 Posts
>I remember the thread, where is the confirmation, itinerary,
>list of principals who are going to show? As far as I know
>this was stalled in the face of all the good intentions.
>
>Additionally such a summit/forumn that I'm talking about, one
>that takes the 3 NA organizations, gets them on the same page
>for a NA Championship or whatever it is determined is needed
>for the top tier guys so the sport can be uniformly promoted
>and advanced with one personality, TV/sponsorship package; and
>stops competeing for each others entry/membership/license fees
>needs to be confinded to principals lest it become a ####
>session.
>
>My money is good for whoever needs the reimbursment.
>
>Bernie

Early in the planning stages, and at Keith and Stephanie's request, I called Terry Epp, Ray Hocker, JB Niday and Sue Robinson and each expressed an interest in being involved with RallyCon (I have to imagine that Pego Mack would show the same interest that Sue did). I also spoke with some manufacturer's reps and other 'heavy hitters' and about the only reservation anyone has had was the location and the long-term health of the endeavor should it remain in Hot Springs. The Wheelers have worked very hard to make certain this event is NOT aligned with any single sanctioning organization so the venue is about as perfect as it could be for your goals.

As far as I know plans continue apace. I have a copy of their first-draft agenda and while I'd rather not publish it (the Wheelers may if they care to) it includes seminars, workshops, a photographer?s forum, events showcase, an organizer?s round table, a trade show and some 'hands-on' activities. A 'neutral ground' summit/townhall like you suggest would be a worthwhile addition for sure.

Again, thank you!

Halley ...
BBBBB (Bring Back Big Bend Bash)
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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don't cut
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4,075 Posts
Alas, the last message we got from Keith is there has not been enough interest to continue moving forward. Hopefully one of the Wheelers can respond here to confirm one way or the other.
Richard
 

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Open AWD Extraordinaire!
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1,216 Posts
So, before any great meeting of the minds.

1. As the group meeting, what do you/they expect to accomplish?
2. What does the volunteer body at large want them to accomplish?
3. What do the competitors want them to accomplish?

yadda yadda yadda.

It's one thing to meet - it's another thing to have an agenda and a common set of goals. What people seem to forget (or willfully don't want to agree upon) is that the major sanctioning bodies in the US have foundational differences with ultimately divergent goals.

P.S. For NRS (East), I could make the argument that Hyperfest is that meeting.
 

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3,258 Posts
What people seem to forget (or willfully don't want to agree upon) is that the major sanctioning bodies in the US have foundational differences with ultimately divergent goals.
Someone tell me what they THINK those different goals are. I would think the goal might be to make things simpler and more consistent for the competitors, #1, the the same for volunteers and organizers. Tell me your opinions.
 

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Flat into R2 ?
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366 Posts
So, before any great meeting of the minds.

1. As the group meeting, what do you/they expect to accomplish?
That they do need each other.
2. What does the volunteer body at large want them to accomplish?
Consintensey
3. What do the competitors want them to accomplish?
1 set of rules

yadda yadda yadda.

It's one thing to meet - it's another thing to have an agenda and a common set of goals. What people seem to forget (or willfully don't want to agree upon) is that the major sanctioning bodies in the US have foundational differences with ultimately divergent goals.
What are these goals they individually want ?

P.S. For NRS (East), I could make the argument that Hyperfest is that meeting.
Definately Not. This summit needs to be held on Neutral ground away from any sanctioning bodies event.
 

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4g63 2liter v8 eater
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279 Posts
Its sad to me that there is so much BULL SHIT in the underbelly of rally.. Why cant it just be about the love of GRASSROOTS RACING. Make it more affordable.. Im having to rob banks to make rallies !!!!!

Gage
 

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Open AWD Extraordinaire!
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Do folks genuinely think that the sanctioning bodies don't already discuss a lot of issues?

People would be best served to pick up a phone and call the movers and shakers and ask them what's really going on with communication rather than making baseless assumptions behind the keyboard. You would be surprised how much communication does exist. I only found out from picking up the phone and calling a few folks.

What do folks think is of common interest (read: goals) between the multiple bodies? Focus on the ends, not the means. Maybe then the bodies will have some fodder to collectively work on. But only where those areas are in priority based on the groups' ultimate goals. And those goals are not entirely common.
 

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Do folks genuinely think that the sanctioning bodies don't already discuss a lot of issues?

People would be best served to pick up a phone and call the movers and shakers and ask them what's really going on with communication rather than making baseless assumptions behind the keyboard. You would be surprised how much communication does exist. I only found out from picking up the phone and calling a few folks.

What do folks think is of common interest (read: goals) between the multiple bodies? Focus on the ends, not the means. Maybe then the bodies will have some fodder to collectively work on. But only where those areas are in priority based on the groups' ultimate goals. And those goals are not entirely common.

Eric you seem to be implying that RA's goal is to provide a meaningful US championship, while NRS focuses on cheap grassroots racing. Have you been to a RA event recently? The entry fees even for the 'national' regional events are within about $100 of RallyWV, cheaper for their regionals (i just dont attend any). The events themselves are very good and might even justify the higher price tag in some situations, even for a cheapo racer like myself. I guess I dont get the claim that NRS is super cheap vs. RA. A per mile basis, black river is more expensive than STPR or Sno*drift for me.

I guess my point is that even if RA's goal is to have a National Championship, those rallys to me feel no different than the nrs grassroots racing to me.
 

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No, your other left!
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922 Posts
Do folks genuinely think that the sanctioning bodies don't already discuss a lot of issues?
Without them telling us what's going on, how are we supposed to know?

I have an RA license, but I never get asked for input. I have an SCCA membership, and there is a monthly publication that outlines meeting discussion, rule proposal, member feedback, etc.

I understand why the SCCA dumped rally, but that doesn't mean their version was broken and needed to be fixed.

1 set of rules. 1 national championship. 1 license. Rally unification!!!
 

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NASA Rally Sport grassroots!!!
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2,835 Posts
I am interested in:

  • Simpler rules. You can tell I'm interested in that because: the rules that cover the events are about 10 pages shorter now than it was five years ago.
  • Friendlier rules. You can tell I'm interested in that because: we've changed several areas to be more lenient to increase the enjoyment of the racers, coming to mind right now are working on your car in a control for small stuff, and a MPL that doesn't kick you out unnecessarily, and simpler registration.
  • Easier registration. You can tell I'm interested in that because: registration is now down to about two or three signatures and that's it. No forms, no insurance paperwork, no showing your license. (As long as you get your ducks in a row previously, of course. :) )
  • Promoting rally through pictures. You can tell I'm interested in that because: we have over 12,000 pictures on photos.nasarallysport.com, largely contributed by racers and volunteers. The event media that I approve, which is most of them, pay no fees to do so and can sell their pictures afterward, and pictures that we sell go to their gas fund.
  • Letting racers promote themselves through video. You can tell I'm interested in that because: the NRS youtube channel is generally playlists of video contributed by racers.
  • Scoring technology. You can tell I'm interested in that because: I built scoring software that can be used at huge events (like four days of a 1000 mile rally down the Baja, we used it for the NORRA Mexican 1000 rally) and tiny events (I did live scoring for HyperFest on an iPhone), so that all events can have access to cool graphs like this and this and this.
  • Mentoring new racers. You can tell I'm interested in that because: it's usually me that gives the Novice Competitor Orientation, which takes about two and a half hours of my time at a rally. I find it very rewarding, actually.
  • Caring for the volunteers. You can tell I'm interested in that because: I deliver meals in the woods, but that's organizer level, so it's not really relevant in this discussion. Above that, for events that use the NRS database for registration, each volunteer leaves registration with a personalized schedule of where they have to be and a list of the other people on their teams, all generated by that database. Then we use the mass texting of the NRS database to keep them updated and entertained all day.

I'm not interested in:
  • Having a sanctioning body structured such that it makes so much money that it could employ me. I have a day job already.
  • A national championship. That story is about the top 2% of racers, and I'm not interested in thinking about just 2%. Plus, someone else is doing it already, so one less thing for me to worry about.
  • As mentioned earlier in the thread "whatever it is determined is needed for the top tier guys so the sport can be uniformly promoted and advanced", I'm not interested in that. A)The top tier guys have way more resources at their disposal to promote themselves. It's an order of magnitude greater, actually, probably two orders of magnitude, than the "PR department" of any American sanctioning body. B) The "top tier" represents such a small fraction of the racing community. For me, it's not a choice, given my limited amount of time in a day, if I should work on something for "2% of racers" or "98% of racers".

The overlap is??? The places where I could get help in my interests via a summit are???

Preemptively: These are the things that *I* am interested in, and that I actively work toward. I'm not claiming that it's "the only way", it's just what I think is the best way. Others are free to pursue something else if they wish.

Yes, I do call the RA folks on occasion. I don't post "OMGLOL! JBN is my BFF!!" on my facebook page afterward. :D

Eric is right on this one: You want to know what's going on? Use. Your. Phone. Want to remain in the dark? Keep hitting 'Refresh' and posting on the internet "What's going on?" Honestly, rally surprises me pretty often with how many interesting things are going on, and it's only a tiny percentage of that information that I ever see on the internet. How often do I say "Use your phone"? Often. And how often do people call? Almost never. Anyone who is in the dark, it's your own choice, man, your destiny is in your own hands. ;) What's actually happening in rally is very interesting.

I have time to get basic information out there on the web: schedules, supps, etcetera. I don't have time to do a daily blog post of everything else, (and neither does anyone else) so if you want to know, call. The amount of work it would take to generate that content would be huge and crippling to nearly any organization. Call if you want to know something.

Anders

ps: Honestly, the "One set of rules!" makes me chuckle, for more than two reasons. First, because I remember when, not even a year ago, a spreadsheet was made that went through the rules and looked at the differences between the two sets. That was the first time it had ever been done. In eight years. I would guess that the number of people who could, without looking, name ten differences between the two rule sets, that's probably less than 20 people in the country. Second, because I was around when there was only one rule set, and trust me, there was a lot of complaining then. For the other reasons, you would have to call me. ;)
 

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Open AWD Extraordinaire!
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1,216 Posts
And to make it easy on folks, Anders' phone is: 919-697-5282

(I have his permission to post). I don't have JB's phone or anyone else, so I'll leave it up to those folks to reply (if they choose).
 
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