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Agreed and well worded. Much of the rally felt as if we were driving through neighborhoods...Actually, we *were* driving through neighborhoods. We drove on 2 lane roads with shoulders and double yellow lines on them too (basically highways). Very odd. We enjoyed ourselves, but it didn't seem suitable for a rally, and seemed too resedential. You might be able to pull that off in Europe, but I was baffled about how they were able to pull it off here. Even if the majority *did* support it, one out of the hundreds of residents there will ruin the entire rally and some lives in a big way. There was no way all those areas could be marshalled properly.

There also were some other organizational fallacies (like me and 3 or 4 other competitors having to make our own time cards for a leg...), but I don't feel like detailing all of them now. Basically, I felt very embarrassed that Nicky Grist came to attend this rally.

Thanks,
Alex
 

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You are correct Alex. the roads where too fast, but some sections where ridiculously fast, but that's another issue in itself.
Don't worry about the Nicky Grist thing. We had the pleasure of talking to him for a few hours after the rally, and he knows and understands that what happened this weekend is not representative of US rallying in general. He did his homemwork before coming here and was very informed about what is going on here in the states, not just with Rally New York but with the sport in general. If any good is to come out of this rally is that he saw the worst, and his opinions and sugestions can really make a difference. I just hope certain people really listen to him. I do feel bad for him having to put up with all the BS this rally brought upon him, and I want to thank him for the time he took to listen to us. I was very pleasantly surprised, almost amazed at how someone at his level is so in touch with the grassroots side of the sport. This guy did not forget where he started, and he works very hard to make sure nobody else forgets the guys at the bottom of the ladder. He truly is a gentleman and he honestly cares about helping the sport, not only in England but here in the US as well.

Cheers,
Jose M. Vicente
 

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Is this just the tip of the iceberg? I'm sure there are a lot more tales out there to be told. I've already posted elsewhere about how close spectators were allowed to stand, 'protected' by orange plastic fencing.

If the instances that Jose mentioned are any indication of the way rallying is going, I fear we are in for some very unpleasant and extremely serious incidents.

Thank you Jose for bringing this to the public's attention. It needs to be addressed and soon.


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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>yes and what about the car that meet otis d. on blind pond
>when he was traviling at about 110 on the stage.

More details please.

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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In my brief tenure as a rally driver at Rally NY I encountered two locals driving with the flow (lucky wasn't I?) of the rally traffic on the first stage. I encountered one over the backside of a crest and one near a junction where the marshalls were helping them go underneath the caution tape. The fact that it happened so regularly on this rally is frightening....for the particpants as much as it should have been for the ignorant locals and every other rally competitor in the US.

Ivan has some good gravel stages with minimal impact on local residents. I think it's time to reconsider how this rally is run, I'm not sure the risk is worth it for the tarmac....

-C
 

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Jason and I almost ran over two kids on 4-wheeler ATVs that were on the road at the end of the second to last stage. We slowed WAY down and pulled off to the left as we passed them, about 1/2 mile before the finish.

Not cool.

Per
 

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>>yes and what about the car that meet otis d. on blind pond
>>when he was traviling at about 110 on the stage.
>
>More details please.

My understanding, from an email I received from one of the people involved was that a local, ignoring the cops and finish control workers, drove against rally traffic through the finish control of Blind Pond and onto the stage, against rally traffic, passing Przybysz/Jozwiak in the control, Iorio/Wimpey on the finish straight, and Dimiters/Ockwell on another long straight.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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>>yes and what about the car that meet otis d. on blind pond
>>when he was traviling at about 110 on the stage.
>
>More details please.
>

I was co-driving for Matt Iorio at the event. We encountered the same car on blind pond. We were with in sight of finish boards, luckily on the highway section of the stage with double yellow lines. We continued to the finish control and informed them (they already knew as the car had just driven past them) They were getting on the radio to stop the stage. The McCormack Evo went into the pond at about the same time so the stage traffic was stopped already it seems. Only Otis and Matt had the unfortunate experience of meeting this car on stage.

We encountered several other vehicles on or very close to the side of hot stages. A quad with 3 people riding on it in the right side ditch just after a stayR/crest...a jeep being driven quickly to the end of a driveway on a stage...a truck proceeding the wrong way down Mathias weieden to the start control..none of this was very confidence inspiring.

If access to the stages can not be controlled then we should not be risking our lives to rally on these stages. We need to go to venues where access can be controlled with the number of workers/volunteers that we have available.

Jeremy Wimpey
 

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>Jason and I almost ran over two kids on 4-wheeler ATVs that
>were on the road at the end of the second to last stage.


The kids weren't mentioned in the stage notes?

Rally in the U.S. is a disaster waiting to happen.
 

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>Jason and I almost ran over two kids on 4-wheeler ATVs that
>were on the road at the end of the second to last stage. We
>slowed WAY down and pulled off to the left as we passed them,
>about 1/2 mile before the finish.
>

To be fair to RNY, a situation of this sort where unexpected people get onto a stage is not unknown in other rallies either. I wasn't at RNY so I don't know whether the problem was more widespread at this event (although there certainly is anecdotal evidence of a number of situations) and the roads used sound as if they have a higher number of residents along them than most roads used at other rallies. However I suspect that the propensity of higher average speeds and some of the top speeds we are hearing about certainly seems to make any violations of the safety protocols a cause for real concern both for competitors and for locals. I hate to prejudge but it seems that others think that this event just might not have the roads or alternatively the needed manpower to continue to safely conduct an event of this nature.

Kent Gardam
 

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We never came across any non-rally traffic on the stages. However, I did hear stories from several drivers who did.

The biggest problem with this rally is a serious lack of workers. You have a small handful of people trying to organize and control things. It showed not just with the incidents involving locals but also in the way the rally was run in general. I can't fault Ivan for trying but clearly he needs to grow the organizational end of things before moving forward. I for one enjoyed the opportunity to run on tarmac. I hope he gets things straightened out. But I get the impression he is fed up himself with trying to organize these events and its not likely we will see too many more RNY events.

--Dave
 

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RE: Rally New York shortage of workers

If you attended the driver's beating(not mispelled), you would know that the Irish were supposed to bring the workers. many of the workers they did have, were delegated to be chicane marshalls.

Stage security, especially in such a density populated area as we were in, means access to stage roads be blocked by vehicles/barriers rather than banner tape.

Our team had no instances of seeing any local on the road. We did unfortunatly witness a black lab. retriever get hit and killed (presumally) by a pickup that may have been associated with the rally. Another thing for the locals to get angry about.:-(
 

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At some point isn't it up to the competitors to park the cars if they feel the stages aren't safe?

If we came across non rally traffic on a stage, I'd probably refuse the start (and urge others to also refuse) until I was reasonably certain that stage security has been addressed ... PARTICULARLY, but not exclusively, the re-running of a stage.
 

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>Jason and I almost ran over two kids on 4-wheeler ATVs that
>were on the road at the end of the second to last stage. We
>slowed WAY down and pulled off to the left as we passed them,
>about 1/2 mile before the finish.
>
>Not cool.
>
>Per

Anyone else believe that this situation alone, if it had not ended as it did, would have been the end of rally in the US? Great I sound like Jens.
 

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For everyone that wasn't there, please understand that on many sections the top speeds were not determined by the roads, they were determined by gearinbg and rev limiters on most of the top cars.
This should give you an idea of what it was like.
Also, this is not the first time this happens at Rally New York. This issue has come up every time Ivan has run this event.
I hate to have to single him out because the guy works his butt off to put this event together, but from what we saw, he tries to do everything himself when he has qualified people around and willing to help him, and he sees these problems as minor problems that can be corrected. No way...

Cheers,
Jose M. Vicente
 

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RE: Rally New York shortage of workers

>If you attended the driver's beating(not mispelled), you
>would know that the Irish were supposed to bring the workers.
>many of the workers they did have, were delegated to be
>chicane marshalls.
>

The ability to properly staff an event should not be contingent on the participants providing the volunteer force...
 

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I agree that Ivan is hard working and has a great vision for growing the sport. I very much appreciate all of the work he does to put these events on. Ivan, before you get all defensive (your current record is 100% for getting defensive regardless of the severity or intention of the criticism), keep in mind that we all want to see you, your events, and rally in the US succeed.

However, it is perfectly clear that his mentality needs to change.

It was absurd enough that he boasted during the awards ceremony at Rally NY back in October that he had been able to run on these residential roads despite the naysayers saying it would never work. Frankly, I was surprised he didn't get BOOOED by all the rallyists who had sat on the side of the road while 3 or more tarmac stages were canceled due to uncontrolled residents. How can you boast to the people who just saw you get beat-up (figuratively) that you didn't get beat-up when you just got beat-up?

I for one wanted my $10 per stage mile back for each stage mile cancelled due to organizer stubborness and EGO.

I chose not to participate in the all tarmac version of the event this spring because I was skeptical that it would be pulled off well, and I saw that the already-to-fast-roads were being supplemented with more equally-fast or faster roads. I was right on both counts.

Too dangerous in a fast car, too boring in a slow car...

Chicanes were clearly not addressed adequately again. The cones in October were a joke. The Pylons in April were clearly problematic. But, the biggest problem is not the chicanes, it is the attitude of Ivan that it is OK to run on these roads PERIOD! If you need that many chicanes, the roads are not appropriate. If there aren't enough appropriate roads for a 120+ mile event, then don't put on a rally in that area or shorten the event to a 1-day ~70 mile event and only use the roads that are appropriate.


BTW, I __DO__ plan on attending the Gravel edition of rally NY in the fall.
 

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RE: Rally New York shortage of workers

>The ability to properly staff an event should not be
>contingent on the participants providing the volunteer
>force...

I agree. What I posted was one of the topics brought up by organizer at drivers meeting, not my view.
 
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