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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I will be attending the Targa Newfoundland for the first time and I am in need of a rally computer. I have never seen one much less used one so any advice would be appreciated. I hope to not have to buy one for this one event - any leads would be a big help.

Thank you,

Loren
[email protected]
 

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>I have never seen one
>much less used one so any advice would be appreciated.
>I hope
>to not have to buy one for this one event - any leads would be
>a big help.


I can lease you my ALFA for only $400/yr

Are you driving or co-driving or spectating?

I don't really know how to use one, either. Luckily, my co-driver appears to understand it. He pushes the buttons, I push the pedals.
 

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Need ride. Please send money.
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For the extra $150, our Coralba was worth the investment. IT is nifty and easier on my codriver's eyes than the Alfa was. ALso easier to mount & package into the car.

But buck for buck, the Alfa was hard to beat for a beginner. It got ua thru some pretty rough stuff and was super easy to operate (even silly nilly drivers like me can operate it).


JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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Do you need a computer or an odometer? An important distinction, as all the replies so far assume you are looking for an odometer. If you need a rally computer, the best answer may be different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
>wouldn't you want to install one and do acouple TSDs to
>practice before investing in Targa NF?
>Going there isn't cheap and a good knowledge of your stuff
>would be prudent.
>rz

I was fortunate enough to win a free entry to the Targa which is why I am going on such short notice. Yes, I would love some time to practice with it - just have to find one first.

Thanks for your input.

Loren
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
>Do you need a computer or an odometer? An important
>distinction, as all the replies so far assume you are looking
>for an odometer. If you need a rally computer, the best answer
>may be different.

I really don't know what I need...it was recommended by another Targa competitor that I get a rally computer. Sorry I didn't clarify - but then again I wasn't sure what I needed anyway. Someone recommended a Terratrip if that is any help.

Thanks for your input - I appreciate it!

Loren
mgbracing.com
 

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don't cut
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Assuming you are in Wisconson where MGB Racing is, then there should be some one fairly close to you that can give you a hand and show you what the options are.
Richard in Texas, not Wisconson
 

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What class are you entering at Targa: Touring or Targa?

This will help determine what features you will be needing most.

From my experience in Targa Class using a Brantz International odo:

- average speed proved useful for checking our progess on stage against "targa time", but you can do also this without odos/computers

- the re-settable incremental distance feature was critical

However, based on my experience with other odos, I did miss the greater correction factor accuracy of my own ALFA Pro odo.

I think the Touring Class is a bit more like TSD/Navagtional rally, with lower average speeds than Targa, plus a lower max speed limit.

A few folks here at Special Stage have attended Targa, so if you post a Topic with "Targa Help Wanted", you're bound to get more responses and recommendations.

Good luck and have fun,

Bill Westhead
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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I KNOW that the Terratrop 303+ has some dedicated TSD features whcih would help you on Targa. you can toggle between displays that will show you average speed during the stage, and a variety of distance and time displays.
I beleive that the Brantz Lazer 3 will do the same for you. The brants will also save some nifty things such as max speed and also has an led display.
if you wanted to assume that you'd loose 10-20% on it , you would be able to sell your odo probably at the drop of a hat after the event.
 

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Hi Loren,

Glad you brought up this subject.

I've been discussing the requirements for a
targa specific box with Mike Friedman at Alfa,
Ross Wood, and other targa rallyists in both targa and tsd class.

It is my understanding that the simultaneous timing requirements
for targa (in targa class) are the following:

1) Meet or exceed the average speed specified for the targa time

2) Meet but do not exceed the max average speed (e.g. 130kph)

3) Do not exceed the peak speed specified in the Speed Restriction
Zones (SRZ) (It is my unerstanding that the average speed requirement
has been removed in SRZs)

4) Do not exceed the peak speed specified for the event outside
SRZs (e.g. 200 kph)

5) Have access to overall / incremental mileage for navigation

Are there any other functions that former targa competitors
feel are vital ?

Marc
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I have competed in Targa Newfoundland in both the Touring Class (aka TSD portion) and the Targa Class (GLH portion).

For the Touring Class, we finished 2nd in 2003 and I used my Alfa Elite. I think that this unit is just what you would need to be competitive in that class. I competed in the Targa Class in 2004 and for reasons explained below I did not use my Alfa Elite in the Targa class, but I loaned it to Harald von Langsdorff with Dave Weiman as navigator in the Touring Class and they had a very good finish.

For the Targa class Marc Goldfarb has clearly outlined the requirements. The driver that I was with asked me before the event "If money was no object, what rally computer/odo would use for Targa Newfoundland and the Nevada Open Road Challenge?" I told him that I had the Alfa, but I recommended the Timewise 798A. My main reason for this recommendation was that it handles three integer digits for speeds better that the Alfa Elite. In the "Rally" mode the Alfa will not handle a speed larger than 99.9 (mph or kph). It will in "Race" mode, but you lose the time of day start capabilities. As a result we used the Timewise 798A and it worked fine. In standard form, the Timewise will handle speeds to 399 (kph or mph). Although, I actually only have direct experience with it to 167 mph.

For Targa, if the calculated required average speed for a stage is 123.6 kph, then I set the target average speed for 124 kph. I also have calculated the maximum earlyness that we are allowed so as not to break the 130 kph limit. And more than once I had to tell Rick to slow down, way down, as we approached the stage finish line so we would not be too fast. Boy, do drivers ever hate to run at 10 mph on a stage!

To meet the needs of Targa, I had a GPS unit in front of me that I used to view the speed of the car. That way in those portions of the stages when we were bumping up against the 200 kph maximum speed limit I could report the speed to the driver without having him taking his eyes off the road and trying to focus on the speed. The drivers display in front of the driver with the Timewise will report the speed, but I also gave him feedback on the speed. I also used this feature in the Speed Restriction Zones where we were limited to a maximum speed of 80 kph.

I also had a separate stop watch that I used in the Speed Restriction Zones. For example, one zone had a minimum travel time of 2 minutes and 36 seconds, so when we entered the zone I started the stop watch and made sure that 2 minutes and 36 seconds had expired before we left it. (Actually we used 2 min 39 seconds to allow for thumb errors at both ends by the timing crews and/or myself.)

I hope that this helps.

Steve McKelvie
Itinerent Co-Driver/Navigator
 

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>
>3) Do not exceed the peak speed specified in the Speed
>Restriction
>Zones (SRZ) (It is my unerstanding that the average speed
>requirement
>has been removed in SRZs)
>

Average speed HAS NOT been removed in SRZs. What's been removed is the MINIMUM average speed -- we now specify only a MAXIMUM AVERAGE speed, which is the same as the MAXIMUM PEAK = 80kph.

Adherance to Max average is enforced through an on-the-fly time check at the entrance and the exit of an SRZ to measure the competitor's average speed thorugh the section. Peak is measured by randomly placed radar guns.

Mark Williams
Targa Newfoundland Director of Competitions

-----

By the way, in the absence of a specially-designed-for-Targa unit, my vote is for the Coralba. I used a (cheaper-than-the-C-Giant) C-Rally when competing in the Targa division in 2002. The PILOT function was perfect for keeping track of how much ahead or behind we were from target time/speed.

I'll be running a C-Giant this year in Car 0, courtesy of P-Sport. (www.p-sport.com)
 

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Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply, Steve
and the summary of our conversation at Baie.

You may want to check with Mike Friedman on the speed setting,
I have used up to 199 mph/kph on the Alfa Elite with production
firmware. Haven't tried it beyond that. (I'll look tomorrow)
It may be that your firmwire may not be the latest revision.
That feature has been in place for a couple of years.

Did you find overall mileage acceptable for course following
or were things so tight that deltas were better in the
short stages?


So it sounds like if you had the ability to set a pair of CASTs, e.g.
124 and 130kph and a simple way to know that you were in the
window (prefereably at the top of the window), you could
concentrate on course following and not worry about timing in
non-SRZs. Add the ability to know that you were not exceding
200kph peak or 80kph peak in the SRZs.

Marc
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Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply. In talking to Ross it was my understanding
that only peak was to be measured in SRZs this year using
RADAR guns in undisclosed locations in the SRZs.

OK, so if there is both a 200kph and 80kph peak alarm available, you
can be certain to avoid blowing the 80kph max CAS in the SRZ.


I understand how you use the pilot function to maintain the targa
speed in the C-giant (as long as you are ahead of time, you are
above the targa CAS), but that doesn't tell you the other 3
items: are you above CAS 130kph, Are you above 200kph peak, are
you above 80kph peak in a SRZ. Did you maintain a separate
watch for that function or use 2 C-giants?

Marc
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>that it handles three integer digits for speeds better that
>the Alfa Elite. In the "Rally" mode the Alfa will not handle
>a speed larger than 99.9 (mph or kph).

Actually, the ALFA-Elite handles speeds up to 300 mph or kph and always has. (Well, not always, but for a decade at least!) You couldn't rally in Canada at all if the computer was limited to 99 kmh. The "race mode" you mentioned is for "Open Road Racing" (Silver State Challenge, etc.) and allows a quick reset mode for drivers running without a navigator.

We're working on some special software for the Targa event. Parts of it it will be tested during this years event, but I can't get into that right now. (Shhhhh. It's a secret.) I don't want to advertise on the forum, but feel free to contact me directly if anyone want to make suggestions or talk about what we're up to.

Rally on,
Mike Friedman
Cheif cook and bottle washer, Small Systems Specialists
Maker of ALFA brand rally computers

[email protected]
www.rally.cc
 

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Thanks for the additional info.

If I understood your question, I used the overall distance on the rally computer only to determine our position on the course. On the longer stages I would give several updates for the turn/corner/crest as we approached the turn/corner/crest. In the town stages where we were turning on a block by block basis, I gave the delta in metres to the next turn, much the way we could do if we had notes. I would make prior notes in the route book (tulips were provided) such that my calls were similar to stage notes.

Steve McKelvie
Itinerent Co-Driver/Navigator
 

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Marc and Mike,

Remember that the Speed Restriction Zones (80 kph max) are added to keep the average speed for the stage below 130 kph. These fast stages will have a substantial length stage lengths where speeds up to 200 kph are possible. So the rally speed alarms would frequently have to deal with both of those criteria on the same stages. It would also be of value to have a minimum speed as an alarm, say 77 kph in a Speed Restriction Zone, so that we don't give up anymore time than we have to.

The timing effect of Speed Restriction Zones and the 200 kph speed limit are issues that have concerned me for sometime. Typically overall stage times are set for the fastest class and then uniform factors (up to say 20% more) are added to these fastest time to set the times for other classes. So in a SRZ, while the fastest cars and the slowest cars are all allotted, for example, 2 minutes 36 seconds (156 seconds total) to complete the SRZ, the slower cars are then effectively given a timing gift of up to 20% of this time (31 seconds) to add to their time to complete the remainder of the stage at their already factored time. It a complicated, but real scoring issue.

Steve McKelvie
 

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>
>I understand how you use the pilot function to maintain the
>targa
>speed in the C-giant (as long as you are ahead of time, you
>are
>above the targa CAS), but that doesn't tell you the other 3
>items: are you above CAS 130kph, Are you above 200kph peak,
>are
>you above 80kph peak in a SRZ. Did you maintain a separate
>watch for that function or use 2 C-giants?
>
>Marc
>>>
>
Using the Coralba, I'd keep track of peak speeds by displaying current speed in one of the displays; time ahead or behind the assigned targa stage speed in a second display; and total distance in the third display. I didn't worry about, or pay attention to, the 130kph average because (1) my strategy was to never be that much faster than my assigned speed which for Category 3 (1964) car was never THAT close to the 130kph limit; and (2) exceeding 130 average has no effect on your score; only if you're a repeat offender will you be dealt with by the stewards.

Mark Williams
 
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