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Discussion Starter #1
This goes out to anyone who can answer.

My current situation, My friend just bought an 05'Sti, We are bot 18 and have been planning on Ralleying competitivly since our Junior year of Highschool. We live in the Los Angeles area and have a hard time finding places to run and practices our notes. His Sti is currently set up for Asphalt/Tarmac, what have you so we plan on sticking to Asphalt for the time being.

My questions.
Any suggestions on where to practice tarmac safetly ?
Will Mt. Baldy/Treeline Rally ever happen ?
Will there ever be ANY Tarmac Ralleys in Southern California ?
And any other suggestions for young upstarts trying to break in.

Much appreciated. Sean McElwain
 

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practicing on tarmac is more unsafe than
dirt. if it was me i would do it at night.
not that many here would think any of this
is a good idea. they are right. it is unsafe
unless it is a closed road!

but if you are goingto do it. use a dead end
not a loop. do it at night and use spoters
if freind will help.

seems like you guys are going hard at this,
what have you done sus wise to your sti?
 

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L1 !!! HPR into HPL
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If you have been following the bouncing ball and the demise of SCCA rally and the new rule which goes into effect for RA on Jan 1, only Grp 2 and Prod cars will be allowed for new entrants with a few case by case exceptions.

Practicing on Tarmac or Gravel is not too good an idea without proper road closures, safety crews, etc. especially for a couple of 18 year olds in 300 hp STIs. Don't know what safety and performance enhancements you have in your vehicles but, at your age, you should be learning thru a proper school in relatively low hp 2 wheel drive cars.

Newbies like you scare the bejeebers out of old farts like us with the dollar ability to purchase 300 hp fire breathing cars and then, without any experience or idea of what you are getting into or doing, want to RACE on public roads, especially in the most congested area of the country.

Please, if you had the money to buy the car, go to Tim O'Neils school and learn from the best before you try your first practice session on public roads or try to enter a performance rally.

You'll be glad you listened and so will we.

David Weiman
rallydave at pobox dot com
 

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See about "track days" at local road courses. There are lots of car clubs that rent tracks for play & practice. I joined the Alfa Romeo club and did laps in my Mazda several years ago. I was able to go around Pacific Raceway without a roll cage at speeds above 100 MPH.
It's a cheap way to push your car to the limit on tarmac without risk of police involvement.
SCCA Solo events are good for that too (but not fast enough in my opinion).
Eventually, you may want to do a tarmac hillclimb event; there's a good one in Southern Oregon.
Dave
 

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I know it sounds lame, but..... Start with TSD rallies. You will learn lots that you can apply to stage rallies.

Run autocrosses, time trials, etc. If you can hook up with some clubs that rent race tracks, that would be good.

Don't let these old farts turn you off too much. I was young too, once, with plenty of cash. One thing that is very different now, than then is the population growth.

30 years ago I used to practice in Maine, New Brunswick, Colorado, and a few other places, but now there are so many people, driveways, kids, traffic that it is not safe for anyone to be practicing at speed on public roads. Well maybe up in Alaska or the northern Canadian territories.

If you kill yourself, that's your business. If you kill someone else then that's a different story.

Again... TSD is very useful.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks alot for your advice.

We spent a night, around Midnight to 4AM on sparsley populated stretch of road in the Palos Verdes Hills and that was that. We were eager just to take it out and get some solid notes. The dangers are evident and we dont plan on using public roads ever again.

But we are interested in serious competition. We've heard about Tim O'Neil's and are trying to work with that on our budget. But untill then I'll be looking for some local clubs
 

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eating dust taking photos
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One more thing or things to consider is going to the UK for schools. Watch for cheap fares and it actually works out to the same or less then Tim if you swing it right.

Bill Gywnne and David Higgins have schools in the UK, and there are more but I can't think of them right now....
 

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Dont race around in a car without a cage/saftey equipment. This is coming from another youngen in the sport. I am not a fan of autox "not enough speed ect aka boring" I raced shifter karts for a while and did some road racing. Track days are easy to do and your insurance covers any mistakes. Go to a racing school so you dont learn bad habits.
 

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Look for hillclimbs in your area. I learned a lot about my cars tarmac handling doing hillclimbs here in New England. One note of caution. Unlike road courses and autocross most hillclimb roads are lined by real rocks, trees and empty expanses of sky. Work your way slowly up to the limits of your car while you gain experience and you might avoid being flatbedded back down. Most people here dont crash but it is pretty easy to spot the ones that suddenly discovered their or their cars limits.

From your note you seem most interested in tarmac events. If you are also thinking about gravel/dirt rally then save your money and let Tim O'Neil teach you in his cars how to do it. Your learning curve will be quicker and you will probably recoup the cost of the school by avoiding the first dozen or so rookie mi$takes in your car in your first couple rallys.
 

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codriveur
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Are you kidding? Your trying to punk us all, right?

You have been a member of this forumn for a year and you ask where you can take a rice rocket (including public roads) and threatren not only your life but, my life, but also threaten anyone nearby and give the sport of Rally a bad name all at the same time!?! Then you ask if tarmac is a good surface to test on!?!

Are you sure your not some Mercury loving dude from the Pacific North West in disguise trying to make a point under an assumed identity? :) :) :) I only hope that joke is true.

If your serious hit the archives of SS for a couple of weeks and you'll have an idea of where to begin. Keep off the road in that car playing co-driver. Your being stupid.

Bernie
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I guess I shouldve been more specific, I meant closed roads, if you actualy read my commments you would know that. As I previously stated the run I did was too dangerous and stupid.

I think young drivers are important to the sport. Being an ass on message boards to prospecting drivers is counter productive and gives people the sense of an old boy mentality. Read carefuly and THEN give me all the constructive criticism you can.

Thanks:)
 

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>You have been a member of this forumn for a year and you ask
>where you can take a rice rocket (including public roads)
>and threatren not only your life but, my life, but also
>threaten anyone nearby and give the sport of Rally a bad
>name all at the same time!?! Then you ask if tarmac is a
>good surface to test on!?!

He is looking for advice. There is no reason to slam him. And, yes, one can learn a lot on tarmac that can be applied to rally.

>Your being stupid.

The proper contraction for "you are" is "you're", not "your". Now, what was that you said about him being stupid?
 

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For practicing tarmac driving, you really have no safe option other than NASA or marque-club driving days. Luckily, you're only about 2 hours away from Willow Springs, so you should be able to fill in about a weekend per month if you join the Porsche club, Miata club, Z car club, and NASA. Though I'm not a fan, you can also have a look at the autocross series that runs at Hollywood Park a few times a month.

I do have to repeat what others have said: Do NOT succumb to temptation and take the car out in PV again. There are far, far too many people in PV to do that safely. Even the Malibu canyons are no longer even remotely safe for spirited driving, even at night.

If you want some places to run on dirt, I recommend taking a few friends with two box trucks, a set of FRS radios, and going to California City. If you get far enough past Cal City, you can find some dirt roads and set up the box trucks on either end of a dead-end road and have radio communication. This, of course, assumes that you have a cage and proper suspension and tires.

May I recommend that, if you're serious about rallying, you consider purchasing a built VW Golf MkII or Volvo 240 rally car and learning on those, instead. "Mistakes" in a STi have a tendency to get expensive quickly. I subscribe to the policy that you shouldn't race on Sunday what you can't replace on Monday without much of a grimace. (For the folks in the crowd who know me, I can buy a new pacenote book any day of the week...)

As far as whether there will ever be any tarmac rallies in SoCal? Pete might succeed in hosting Baldy, and I wish him the very best of luck. That said, I don't think you'll ever have more than 1 tarmac rally per year in California. As hard as it is to get gravel roads, asphalt roads present a whole different challenge.

>And any other suggestions for young upstarts trying to break
>in.

Yeah, go take Tim O'Neil's school. It'll be money in the bank for parts you don't have to fix. And if you're serious about co-driving, you can ask questions here, and check out www.davekean.com.
Dave's the business, yeah.

Best of luck. Think cheep car! Even the co-driver winces when expensive car breaks... (wince...)

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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>I think young drivers are important to the sport. Being an
>ass on message boards to prospecting drivers is counter
>productive and gives people the sense of an old boy
>mentality. Read carefuly and THEN give me all the
>constructive criticism you can.

Yes, but young fatalities in the name of what a lot of people here are very serious about defending are not. Everyone does something stupid from time to time when they're young, just make this the last time you advertise it here. You want my constructive criticism? You were being stupid, have no right to be the least bit defensive of it now, but most people here want to see more people in the game and will let you off easy.

Good step #1 is always finding your local club and finding someone who is involved there. You'd be surprised how much they'll tell you for free.

Good step #2, ditch that fancy 4wd....... ;)

>Thanks:)
Your welcome (Grammar error added just for Jenny :p )
 

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First of all, thank you Christian for those words.

Now, as many others have pointed out to you and I think you have got the message already - enough said.

I am still working to get the tarmac event (Baldy) on the calendar. The last thing I or anyone else want to see is another statistic which will work against our aims. I have a face to face meeting coming up in the near future to put my case forward. I will post any progress I make.

We have already accepted into our rallying community a young gent who used to use those roads at night and has personally seen what can go wrong up there. You may even know him. He does post on SS. I hope you and your friend join our community and purchase a car more suited to our impending rules.






Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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>>Being an ass on message boards to prospecting drivers is counter
>>productive and gives people the sense of an old boy
>>mentality.

Correct! And, to confirm your suspicions, there is a "good old boy" mentality in rallying.

>You want my constructive criticism? You were being
>stupid...

He already wrote that he realized what he did was wrong and he would not do it again. What more do you want, his signature in blood?

Sean,
Don't let these people get you down with all their negativity. A bunch of people died in rally in the past few years due to the "good old boy" metality leading them down the dollar path. They're a bit over-sensitive about any negative exposure now. Too little, too late.

BTW: some of them will be jealous of your fancy Subaru. Been there, done that (had a BMW when I was 15 before I had a license). After a couple of BMW's I graduated to a Porsche 911 when I was 18 (I started rallying the same 911 in my early 20's). Enjoy your Subaru!

Keep asking questions. Keep learning.
 

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>But we are interested in serious competition. We've heard
>about Tim O'Neil's and are trying to work with that on our
>budget.

Huh? You can afford an STi but not Tim O'Neils?

BTW my STi usually scares me about once a day..."pay attention!".
 

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>BTW my STi usually scares me about once a day...

Other than some rusted or in need of repair car, how can a car scare its driver if driven according to the intent of the law and within the posted speed limits that are typically very low in the United States?

Or are you referring to a closed road or race track?
 

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C'mon Jens. Next you're going to tell us you're in favour of the 55 speed limit!


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 
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