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SCCA currently allow limited slip or locked diffs in production class as per their rules:

16. Final Drive

if, for the same model, different final drive ratios are normally offered, they may be used. Limited slip or locked differential units are allowed for use in Production GT and Production (including Rallytruck) class vehicles.

FIA also allows limited slip diffs in group N:

6.2.3) Differential:
The use of a mechanical type limited slip differential is authorised, provided that it can be fitted in the series housing and is homologated in Option Variant

Currently a person in N1 2 and 3 could run in P1, 2 and 3 in a group N car and be legal with the limited slip. As per the highlighted area in Group N rules of the 2003 CARS rule book which stated:

"For 2004, the lower class displacement Group N classes will be merged with production. See NRR II G for details."

Though the 2004 rules don't say this, go figure?

I propose we allow limited slip diffs in all classes.

Colin
 

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RE: LSD Proposal

I agree with this one. I never really understood, anyway, why it was permitted (if non-stock) in P4, but not P1-2-3........

LSD gives a traction advantage, but otherwise does not alter the performance of the car. So, the car still appears to be stock to the spectators, but the cars get to put on a better show, and not get stuck in deep snow or mud as much.
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

I am from the US and run in Canada quite a lot.
My car fits into P3 in Canada, but I have a LSD which
is allowed under SCCA rules. I do agree that CARS should
allow Canadian P cars to install an LSD. At least in
my class that is, I have not looked very deep into
the complications this may bring with group N and the rest.

Colin have you submitted this request, I thought about it
but I don't hold a CARS license so I don't think I can.

-Brian
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

Yep - I agree !!

It defeats the spirit of the NARC championship for P3 (I'm not excluding the other P classes for any other reason that they're disadvantaged in the US due to the lack of anything but P and PGT) to start with.

There's no one in their right mind that would make the trip south of the border to compete with a non-lsd car. It really becomes a one-sided championship.

I haven't read the CARS rules in some time, but I believe that an LSD is allowed in a P3 car, if it was available in the production model - I believe the Nissan NX? was one of these cars.

This is how the rules read in the US prior to 2003/2...I don't know what the rational behind the change was - I'm hoping that, it was a realization that a proper rally car, given today's technology and the relatively low cost, should have an LSD, as much for performance as for control (dare I say, safety ;)

The proposal has been put to CARS, at the time I think it was a voice of one (me :(). Apparently it has been reviewed on several occasions, but the board is very contrary to it. Perhaps with a larger contingent of competitors asking for this, it might be considered in a different light.

I've had to take my LSD out to compete for championship points in the CARS series. In turn, I will not be competing in any US events (although I know some P cars w/LSD's will be coming north - huh B-dog ;).

So - can I see a show of hands of folks that would be FOR LSD's that would be willing to contribute to re-submitting the request to CARS?

V-
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

I don't compete in the lower P classes but all my street cars are 2wd without LSD, so I have an appreciation for the traction difficulties that these rules pose on competitors without diffs.

I am in favour of chaning the rules to permit all production classes to use commercially available limited slip differentials whether or not offered by the manufacturer in the given model as standard or optional equipment.

Janusz Komorowski
www.jkmrallyteam.com

________
MAINE MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

The only bad side of this is the $ factor...

It looks alot like the engine management situation in P4...

if you want to have any chance to win your class...you need it!

It kind of take the funn factor away if you know that the otter cars in your class got some parts that you cant aford...production is supose to be a class to avoid all these expensiv issue.

Of course...i would like to have one... but I can live whit out it...

If it become legal...i will get one...even if its not available i will get one custome made if i need too no matter howmuch it can cost!

Thats the kind of situation im shure many would like to avoid....it mite not be the case for all...but we are all racers and usualy thats how racers are...if the otter got it...we need it and we will get it(unless we are always beating them:+ )

the proposision is good...all the argument are good..but we have to think about the $ factor....as for the GrN cars...well...the day we have a GRN3 or lower we just mite have to shove them in the open class LOL :+

To me the engine management and LSD should be for open class and GR2 ...Production should be keept as simple as possible (KISS).

But what ever do for the best...i would not mind having some LSD on my car....i just dont know how i will pay for them....


Alain Lavoie
24Rallyteam
http://www.abikeonline.com/24rallyteam/[/url
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

No doubt - the $ factor is there. I don't know what it would cost on the Justy - as I suspect you'd need rear and center diffs - which could get pricey.

I do know that most 2wd cars can get either Quaife or Torsen (less $) - Quaife is around $500 US...Is this comparable to a $3500+ Gems control unit? Don't think so...

Can I also throw in the safety factor with the LSD? It could get you out of trouble more times than it could get you into trouble - me thinks.

In racing is $500 a lot of dosh? Well, it would certainly pay for a large part of an event - it could limit a team by one event that year - all true.

Alan, I believe you're running in a class that doesn't exist in the US...doesn't make you a bad guy :p (s'matter of fact, I believe we worked out the power/weight ratio on the Justy's - its competitive w/ most P3's). However my point is that there is some good racing in the US as well as in Canada - If one did have a P3 car and wanted to go south to kick some yanky butt - they probably wouldn't. And not just because the American beer is too light and sweet, but because them yahoo's all got the diff's !

I believe US and Canadian racing should continue to cooperate as much as possible to encourage international competition and leverage the momentum being created by each. This rule, in the P3 class, is diametrically opposed to this type of cooperation.

So perhaps, its not ALL P classes, but at least the ones that are shared between the two countries.

V-
www.xtremefocus.com
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

I understand what you mean Vittorio...

I guess we are lucky you ad one wen we were stock at PN...man...that was close.. but im pretty shure it mostly good driving than a good diferencial that save our lifes :*

I say we change the scca rules to match CARS ]:+ to me its the most logical....but it mite be easyer to go to mars for a picknick...


Alain Lavoie
24Rallyteam
http://www.abikeonline.com/24rallyteam/[/url
 

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RE: Proposal to allow LSD's in all production classes

I agree, lets get the US rules changed :p and while we're at it, lets add P1 & P2 to the US rules so that will further increase the ability of our Northern freinds to come and compete. I hear this is a great time of year on Mars - we'll see you there then?

On the other hand, perhaps there are already too many rallies and the cost is too high as it is - so why would anyone in Canada come and play in the US anyway? Regardless of what the rules are...

Truth be known, I race in Canada because:
a) There's better competition in the production classes
b) Its less expensive
c) There's more local enthusiasm (general cultural phenomena)
d) All the events are very well organized
e) You have great after race parties }>
f) and the beer ain't bad :+

Giving up the LSD was worth all of these - and I'll still keep coming even if the rule is not changed - Eventually I'll go to the P4 class and this will no longer be an issue. So for now - I'd hope in at least P3 the powers that be would consider equalizing the US/Canadian rules (as there is no P1 or P2 in the US it would make no sense to add the cost burden to those classes).

We'll see you at Rocky then?
 
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