[Guest]

Go to http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-08.pdf (a big file--may take a while if you are dialing in from a slow connection) to read the PRB minutes from 27 March, 1 May, and 3 June.

Proposed rule changes for 2003 were mentioned but are not yet available as far as I can tell.

Misc sections I found interesting

3/27/2002 III.A. and IV.D.

5/1/2002 III.A.

6/3/2002 I.B. and II.C.

Tonight (6/19) was latest PRB meeting according to May 1st minutes.

---------------------------------------
John Dillon John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com

edit: corrected '6/29' to '6/19'

 

[jmullan]

Tonight is 6/29?

 

[Pete Kuncis]

>Tonight is 6/29?

Weeeeeeee! If so, I gotta go pick up my 2 paychecks at work! Should probably pick up fresh milk I guess too.

 

[Jon Bogert]

That's not minutes, it's just a topic outline.

For example:

"II. Series Manager's Report:
C. Discussed entrant disqualifications at Rim of the World and STPR."

Yeeeessssss??? And what was said? What consensus was reached? What action plan is proposed to clarify the ambiguity of the rules in this area?

Too damn secretive if you ask me. They should tape record the meetings and make the audio available on-line like an analysts' conference call.

 

[Denise McMahon]

John,
What do they mean by Rally Worker Licensing? Is this a volunteer program they are thinking about? Or is this where they want them to be SCCA members before they can volunteer? Please clarifiy before I make a comment to this. If it is what I think it is then they have gone over the boundaries to all rally events regarding workers. If it is a volunteer program then that will be different. If it is going to become manditory then now they are stepping on hot grounds there. Please clarify by what they mean if you can.

Denise McMahon
Co-Organizer
Rim Of The World Rally

 

[Bill Barfoot]

from everything I understand, it is a voluntary thing. ALL volunteers that are in "HOT" areas must already be members. Time controls are not "hot" areas, stages are. It is a sticky definition, as off the side of a stage (where HAM would be) isn't really a "hot" area, but in a sence it is. The licensing is purely voluntary though, as it is now in other forms of SCCA racing. (to a point, though it can be thought of as mandatory, in as much that you cannot do X without a license to do X, but you can be X's assistant, or helper)

I'm sure that just muddied the watters that much more... I had the same concerns before finding out exactly what it implemented. Once I got the details, I was happy, and even borderline enthusiastic about it.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

>John,
> What do they mean by Rally Worker Licensing? Is this a
>volunteer program they are thinking about? Or is this where
>they want them to be SCCA members before they can volunteer?
>Please clarifiy before I make a comment to this. If it is
>what I think it is then they have gone over the boundaries
>to all rally events regarding workers. If it is a volunteer
>program then that will be different. If it is going to
>become manditory then now they are stepping on hot grounds
>there. Please clarify by what they mean if you can.
>
>Denise McMahon
>Co-Organizer
>Rim Of The World Rally
Denise, some years ago the SCCA in its infinite wisdom passed a rule trying to make anybody who was at, in or near a road-race buy membership with the usual lies and blather about the boogie man of insurance, something was passed, I can't recall it was 12-13 yrs ago.

A year later we all saw big PRESS Release BS about the fantastic job their latest membership offensive had accomplished, ONWARD AND UPWARD membership was climbing to stratosheric unparrelled ...blah blah.
They required guys buddies who stand aroud and help to have membership and guys baking on some corner to get a membership and or licence and then later crow about membership increases!

And some people wonder why large portions of the membership are cynical at best and disgusted at worst about the entire administration of the SCCLUBA?

Nothing is as it seems, especially when the driving forces are Marketing.















John Vanlandingham

 

[Denise McMahon]

Thanks Bill for the clarification. There was talk about three years ago that ALL volunteers must be SCCA members but nothing was said again about that topic. I am glad if they make it a volunteer program for already SCCA members that just volunteer their time at working an event or a previous racer who just volunteer their time at working events; at least you will know about that particular volunteer on what they have done on previous rallys.

Denise McMahon

 

[Bill Barfoot]

>at least you will know about that particular volunteer on what
>they have done on previous rallys.
>
>Denise McMahon

That is exactly why it is being implemented...

 

[Guest]

>The licensing is purely voluntary though, as it is now in
>other forms of SCCA racing. (to a point, though it can be
>thought of as mandatory, in as much that you cannot do X
>without a license to do X, but you can be X's assistant, or
>helper)

Just a point of clarification....

You must be a member and licensed in most road racing specialties, including Flagging/Communications, Emergency Services, Pit Control, and Grid. If you work T&S you generally don't need a license. The deciding factor is, as Bill says, "hot" areas. However, even if you're just a flagger's helper you now have to be a member and licensed.

When I started flagging (12 March 1988, double National at Firebird Raceway), I could be on a corner in Arizona (cold area) but not respond to a wayward car (hot area). Now the corners are considered completely hot.

I've been told we lost a LOT of flaggers when the membership rule came down, but it was before my time.

John

---------------------------------------
John Dillon John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com

 

[Denise McMahon]

Thanks John on your comment... if by chance they are thinking about manditory license for volunteers then you will see a shortage of workers on these rallys and will have no interest in shilling out what $60.00's for a solo member? On top of that putting out their own room cost minus room rebates they get from the organizers, plus food. Now that is where they will have gone overboard if that is what they are discussing. If it is voluntary you make the SCCA membership known to your workers on what they get if they become a member and it should be optional. Maybe in hot areas might be something that needs to be discussed and how you can get workers to work those areas and become a member at a lower cost than regular members. Again...you are asking alot out of workers in regards to money when they do not get paid to do this.
Yes.... they do get a couple of worker perks and a room rebate if that organizer can aford it. I am sorry but I have always been on the soap box that if you do not have workers then you can not put on a successful rally or a rally at all. Believe me I sweated bullets at Rim on staffing enough on each crew and to get the experience people back and how do we retain them for next year. Pat and I have been discussing this for a long time. We have come up with solutions to these problems, but if they were thinking about manditory lic. on workers then you have made a new problem.
I hope I am wrong on this on what they are proposing or what I think they are proposing.


Denise McMahon

 

[wahl]

A few things of note:

Note the part about observing the Rally NewYork as a possible
future Pro event. Even with the small issues we had last
year it was one of the most fun events I'd been to in a while.

But I'm torn on the Pro thing. Not a big fan of the circus
coming to town, if you know what I mean.


New sound testing procedures. That ought to be interesting.
[Save us all from having to follow unmuffled RX7s ]


Guess I need to look at the new types of Lexan on the
market. I keep hearing about break-away for car escape.

Ed

 

[MattLovell]

Yea,
Requiring SCCA membership for all workers won't work, at least not in the current membership structure. If they added a special membership for workers only (like the CRS "Associate" membership), at say - half the price of the normal membership (call it $30) and offer it without the magizine subscription for an additional $10 off. a $20 annual membership for workers might be doable, but would still reduce the number of willing workers. What is the thought behind this? is it as JohnV proposes, just another membership drive? is it for insurance reasons? Safety? why can't there just be a mandatory workers meeting ,like the first time drivers meeting and the regular drivers meeting?

 

[starion887]

The Rally New York potentila for a Pro event caught my eye too.

1) Good marketing move; put it within a couple hours of the world's media center.

2) Bad for Club-only sand entry level competitors in the NE; one more event down the tubes for that group. You might as well cancel a meaningful CLub Rally championship in the NE.

3) Bad for the Pro series balance, west to east.

Mark B.

 

[Bill Rhodes]

I completely agree with Mark B's points and was about to make them myself. This was a fun event for all NEDiv people. But I question whether there are enough roads up there to hold a longer event. After all, many stages were (supposed to be) rerun 2 or 3 times.

I'd hate to see this event co-opted into a PRO event. Let the PRO guys go find their own events (preferably on the West Coast). This would be a good event for a Super D. level event if only the PRB would pay attention to growing chorus of competitors asking that the three-tier system be set up!!! The manufacturers have already taken STPR and Maine. They need to get their greedy hands off the rest of our events. I hope the Oriseks, Carl E., Mark S. etc. just say "no thanks".

This is also a poor substitite for Rim due to the worsening of the regional (East v. West) imbalance. The PRB needs to address the high level of discontent among non-manufacturer competitors, especially NEDiv competitors, and event organizers before they make a power grab on Divisional events.

Bill Rhodes

 

[Rick Hintz]

ClubRally Points Rules Changed

Note that the FasTrack contains a letter drastically changing the ClubRally Points system mid-season. While the 2002 rulebook changed it to the Pro system (20, 15, 12, 10...), this changes us back to the vastly inferior old system (20, 18, 16, 14...), where slow driving is rewarded only slightly less than fast driving.

 

[Bruce]

>I'd hate to see this event co-opted into a PRO event. Let
>the PRO guys go find their own events (preferably on the
>West Coast). This would be a good event for a Super D.
>level event if only the PRB would pay attention to growing
>chorus of competitors asking that the three-tier system be
>set up!!! The manufacturers have already taken STPR and
>Maine. They need to get their greedy hands off the rest of
>our events. I hope the Oriseks, Carl E., Mark S. etc. just
>say "no thanks".

Pro events do not get "co-opted." The first requirement is that the event organizers ASK to become a ProRally...you're addressing your complaint to the wrong people. From all appearances, Rally New York WANTS to become a ProRally.

Further, the PRB IS working on the three-tier system. They have delegated the ClubRally Stewards to come up with a workable scheme, since they'll be admisistering most of it. They're presently looking at the old "Super-D" series as a model. This has been posted here before.

BW