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Left 4 into beachball
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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Rule book for 2010 has just been posted. Items of note:

-Time Attack appears to have dropped the DOT 140 treadwear tire rating.
-Rally America will count the race for 2 coeff. Mark Lovell award will be presented to the fastest Rally America legal entry on race day. PPIHC is recognizing the following classes: Open, Open Light, Super Production, Production GT, Production, Group 5, & Group 2.

Just looked and it appears that entry fees will be the same as they were in 2009. $1250 for first deadline, ranging up to $1850 at the cut-off date. Co-drivers cost an extra $300 once again.

Dave
 

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Rapidly filling your mirrors
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Is there really a difference enough here to justify 11 classes??!

I admit I'm no fender expert but I gotta believe that they are hoping half of this doesn't even garner an entry....

Pikes Peak Open
Rally America - Open
Rally America - Open Light
Rally America - Super Production
Rally America - Production GT
Rally America - Production
Rally America - Group 5
Rally America - Group 2
Time Attack - 2WD
Time Attack- 4WD
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Is there really a difference enough here to justify 11 classes??!

I admit I'm no fender expert but I gotta believe that they are hoping half of this doesn't even garner an entry....
In my eyes, most certainly not...but I'm one of those people who would rather race against a big field and earn my place rather than compet in a class with no other entrants and be guaranteed a trophy. Luckily the way the classes were in 2009, I had the luxury to swap from Time Attack AWD (only entrant) to PPO where there was some competition.

Here's a quick rundown of the classes:

Open Light, Production, and Group 2 are normally aspirated classes. I'd put money on these being the least subscribed. Super Production and Production GT are basically very minimal modifications allowed to the engine & drivetrain. Open and Group 5 are 'anything goes' type classes, but are limited to 5.1L n/a or 3.0L turbo/sc powerplants.

Honestly I'm a bit surprised that they even listed all these classes, especially since at the "National Level" only three classes exist now, Open, Super Production, and 2wd. They are making the event a "Regional Event" so I suppose that's where all the classes fall in, but based on the cost of the event, I'd be surprised if there were very many regional competitors showing up. $1550 for entries paid for by the end of the year is steep, as that'll cover 3 regional rally entry fees.

Dave
 

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In my eyes, most certainly not...but I'm one of those people who would rather race against a big field and earn my place rather than compet in a class with no other entrants and be guaranteed a trophy. Luckily the way the classes were in 2009, I had the luxury to swap from Time Attack AWD (only entrant) to PPO where there was some competition.

They are making the event a "Regional Event" so I suppose that's where all the classes fall in, but based on the cost of the event, I'd be surprised if there were very many regional competitors showing up. $1550 for entries paid for by the end of the year is steep, as that'll cover 3 regional rally entry fees.

Dave
I am kind of intrigued by this. How long untill the entire road is paved?

With Rally america getting involved, what are the chances the CRC might?
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I am kind of intrigued by this. How long untill the entire road is paved?

With Rally america getting involved, what are the chances the CRC might?
Next year there will still be dirt from Picnic Grounds to Glen Cove, and Devils Playground to Boulder Park. I think that works out to ~5.5 miles of dirt, and ~7 miles of pavement. I don't know exactly how much they plan on paving after the race next year, but I'd assume it'll be at least the section from Devils Playground to Boulder Park.

I mentioned that PPIHC seemed like a better fit for CRC than Idaho (geography), but understood that a big part of the argument against PPIHC was the cost and time off required. To run PPIHC, you'll need to be in Colorado Springs from Tuesday at noon thru Sunday evening.

Better get that turbo fitted up...its a long road with no boost!

Dave
 

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eating dust taking photos
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At a $1250 entry (1550 with navie) entry fee, you could almost cover all of the entry fees for the rest of the season with that one fee.

Add in the 6 lost days of productivity and that almost matches the realistic needs for just about any team to miss work for an entire CRC season....

PPIHC just isn't a fit for the grassroots aspect of the program.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Add in the 6 lost days of productivity and that almost matches the realistic needs for just about any team to miss work for an entire CRC season....
100% in agreement on the cost of the event, but saying the time off equals the rest of the CRC schedule just can't be accurate.

PPIHC = 6 days (Tuesday - Sunday)

Rally-x / RallySprint Weekend = 2 days (tow out and back day of event)
Rally Colorado = 4 days (Thursday recce - Sunday race)
Rally Idaho = 4-6 days? (is same sched. as RFKaC, add extra day on each end for travel)

PPIHC has some pros and cons for sure, and I think you guys have made the right call on skipping it. Now, if we could run a bunch of other stages with the last stage being race day, that might be another story. :)

Dave
 

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100% in agreement on the cost of the event, but saying the time off equals the rest of the CRC schedule just can't be accurate.

PPIHC = 6 days (Tuesday - Sunday)

Rally-x / RallySprint Weekend = 2 days (tow out and back day of event)
Rally Colorado = 4 days (Thursday recce - Sunday race)
Rally Idaho = 4-6 days? (is same sched. as RFKaC, add extra day on each end for travel)

PPIHC has some pros and cons for sure, and I think you guys have made the right call on skipping it. Now, if we could run a bunch of other stages with the last stage being race day, that might be another story. :)

Dave

I should have worded that better.

The 4 required work week days off will likely match or exceed what is needed for the rest of the calendar. Besides, who the hell is productive monday after PPIHC, I know with my sleep schedule that jacked up by then I am useless on that Monday...

And as an argumentative point, you don't have to get to Steamboat before Friday as recce is not required. For rookies though all three days of practice for PPIHC are mandatory...
 

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Ibumpedmyknee,icannotcont inue
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Miotch... we are in right in the gc8? I am scheduling all my field work days around that date.
I'm not sure what to do with the GC yet:

-English Rallycross?
-Open Light?
-Stupid fast hillclimb car?

Yeah, either way we're in for PP 2010. Troy is being difficult about it. But what evs.

Keep Seed 9 open.
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The 4 required work week days off will likely match or exceed what is needed for the rest of the calendar. Besides, who the hell is productive monday after PPIHC, I know with my sleep schedule that jacked up by then I am useless on that Monday...

And as an argumentative point, you don't have to get to Steamboat before Friday as recce is not required. For rookies though all three days of practice for PPIHC are mandatory...
If recce is offered, I would wager the top teams will be there. If you're in the hunt for a trophy, you'll go after every advantage you can get, and I'd say recce is a huge one.

Point taken on the working after an event...but I'd argue that you're just as likely to need a recuperation day after Rally Colorado as after PPIHC. Long day in the car, 3-4 hour tow home. I wasn't even racing, and I didn't make it into work after RFKaC this year. With Idaho, unless you're flying in, I'd guess Idaho is a 4 days off work event, with towing out on a Wednesday, and driving home on a Monday.

I'm not sure what to do with the GC yet:

-English Rallycross?
-Open Light?
-Stupid fast hillclimb car?
You can pull off 2 of 3 of these things with only a tuning change. :) Don't forget to add a bigger turbo too!

Dave
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
stupidlightfasthillclimbcar?
Weight minimum for PPO is 1800lbs. No restrictors. 2 of the above listed classes are for turbo cars...you'd need an engine swap to run Open-Light, so that's probably the odd man out in your list.

Not sure what the rules will be for Euro-Rally-X, but likely there'll be some sort of restrictor required. I think I heard 45mm is/was what the Euro guys use. If you put together a V-banded turbo kit, swapping turbos only takes ~15 minutes...much less if you add dry-break oil & water lines.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 · (Edited)
Not sure how I feel about this. I can see this leading to the "do-over" mentality at the event in the future, just like in a video game. I mean, if I crash, I have to worry about killing myself, my wife, and destroying my car. If all I have to worry about is wrecking a car (albeit an expensive one filled with extra computers), of course I could go faster.

I'm a bit curious on how the car will react to a spectator running across the road and freezing...it happened last year, and a guy crashed a vintage car as a result. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for technology...but if this thing screws me or other paying racers out of practice time or prolongs race day to the point we have to run in crappy weather, I'm going to be pissed.

Dave
 

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RallyX Weenie
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dave-

as someone who competed against stanford's team @ the DARPA Urban Challenge in 2007, they would be the first group I would choose to tackle this. While making a decision about what the car sees ahead while driving on the limit is a lot different than the same decision @ 30 mph, they're one of the best equipped groups to approach the problem.

If I get a chance tomorrow I'll try and dig up some good videos to demonstrate just how good their car was in '07.

That said, I fully expect the promoters of PPIHC to ask Stanford to prove to them that the car will be safe. I think it's unlikely that they'll allow them to run truly unmanned - probably a space monkey in the passenger seat.

Also, I wouldn't worry about this tech being too available - it makes rally cars seem relatively affordable. The lowest budget team to make the finals in '07 said they had about $75k in the car. 1/3 of that was their GPS system. At best, systems like these will probably be as available as WRC spec cars.

//but thanks for posting this - I'm in a different industry now, and had no idea they were doing this.
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Also, I wouldn't worry about this tech being too available - it makes rally cars seem relatively affordable. The lowest budget team to make the finals in '07 said they had about $75k in the car. 1/3 of that was their GPS system. At best, systems like these will probably be as available as WRC spec cars.
FWIW, I don't doubt the technology, I'm just not sure how this fits in with racing if there's not a person controlling it. Looking back on the history of the event, AWD cars, alternative fuel, electric cars, they've not been shy about embracing new technologies up there...but unmanned vehicles. Yes, this fits as a great engineering feat...but would they get the go ahead to run at a rally, or enter a car at the Datoyna 500?

Also, $75,000 in a car is a drop in the bucket compared to what some of the cars that race up there cost (not many, but some), and a wrecked computer is cheaper to replace than someone who spends a week in the hospital.

My major beef with the event last year center around delays to the event. Letting the Unlimited guys run one at a time was a waste of time. 4 cars, each getting 15-20 minutes of time on the mountain while everyone else waited. The rain moved in about an hour before cars finished leaving the startline, and many people spends loads of money for 1 crack at the mountain. I don't know what sort of times they're expecting to run in the UMV, but if its much slower than a typical race car, they should be stuck at the end of the day.

Dave
 
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