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Straight At "T"
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you all think the proper format for Pike's Peak is? This year it was run as a rally, sort of, with multiple stages consisting of various sections of the toll road. Previously it was just more of an exhibition event for manufacturer's points, and those who wanted to go play in their rally cars. Here are some of my thoughts:

From a pure enjoyment level, I liked the exhibition format the best. I liked the practice sessions as much as the actual hillclimb and enjoyed the "slack" time tidying up my notes as well.

The Pike's Peak staff put a lot of effort into making the rally portion of the event this year happen. But in my opinion, it's just not a proper rally for a number of reasons. First off, it was impossible to get to bed at 4:00 in the afternoon so I could get up at midnight to go the stage at 2:00 AM. The stages used rolling starts. A rally strives to be run on time, but the hillclimb folks have you show up an hour or two before the stage is scheduled to run, then have you hang out until they yell "Let's go!". It drove some co-drivers mad (madder? :D). In fact, at one point they came around and told me I had 20 minutes until they'd start cars. Then 5 minutes later someone came around and told me to fire up and git. When I blew up my motor (DNF'd the actual rally), I of course still wanted to do the hillclimb part on Saturday, so they made me run at the back of the pack behind a normally aspirated Escort on stage 2. I don't recall how much time they left between he and I, but it wasn't near enough and I caught him. But there's a hillclimb thing about not passing anybody, ever, so I just shut off the anti-lag and enjoyed a leisurely cruise up the road around 3:00 in the morning. I would have stayed in bed, but I wanted to practice the top half of the Peak.

I thought it might be nice to have a real rally, run off of but somewhere near the Peak, with proper stages put on by a regular organizer and run as it should be. Maybe it could be worked in during Thursday & Friday as the practice sessions are over by 9:00 AM, and then the final stage could be the hillclimb or perhaps that's just a non-counting special stage? Anyhow, the thought of having to set up for practice (tarmac & smooth gravel with extreme altitudes), then set up for the rally (rough gravel & much lower altitudes), then practice, then gravel, then the hillclimb made my crew whimper. Moving the real rally to the preceding weekend might take too much time to be practical for a lot of people.

The hillclimb is expensive as it is, and adding a whole real rally on top of it and including it as a series points event would make it wicked expensive.

I think that because it's so expensive and so difficult to make into a real rally, it should be the chance to play with your rally car on a classic venue if you've got the time and money, but it shouldn't be part of the average competitor's championship. Manufacturers could score it how they saw fit for their championships.

Especially those who ran it this year, what do you think?

Cheers,
-Doug
 

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Pikes peak tends to excite potential sponsors.......... I think it would be worth having it part of the championship












Just my 2 cents
 

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Loose nut behind the wheel
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I feel the sponsors will be interested whether it is part of the championship or not.

I vote for the hillclimb to be run as a non-points event but everyone is invited to come and play. There are too many things about PPIHC that make it too different from a true rally. It is a great event to be sure but it is NOT a rally.

Mark Utecht
 

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I'd like to hear from the people who have competed at Pikes Peak. They should be the most knowledgable. (This would include people who have crewed or worked at Pikes Peak.)

From a far away view:
If a rally (100 stage miles)in conjunction with the hill climb could be organized, I think it is an appropriate part of a national championship.

There are however additional issues to consider:
-- cost: is it substantially more than other rallies? (Yes) This may be a reasonable reason to not include it in a championship

-- Format: timing, scoring, licensing, tech, routebook/stage notes should all be consistent with a standard rally (That is not to say there might not be non-mandatory add-ons like Recce.)

-- Time: so long as the time commitment is not substantialy different from a standard rally it should be OK.


All that said, those people running a national campaign past, present, or future should make the reccomendations.


GOOD LUCK!

Mike
 

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>I think that because it's so expensive and so difficult to
>make into a real rally, it should be the chance to play with
>your rally car on a classic venue if you've got the time and
>money, but it shouldn't be part of the average competitor's
>championship. Manufacturers could score it how they saw fit
>for their championships.


It doesn't affect me personally, but I'll put in my 2 cents anyway.

Oh dear God! Pinch me! Am I dreaming? The voice of reason... finally after the years of darkness!

Mr. Havir, I just might have to put you on my Christmas card list (if I ever start one).

As you write... The well funded guys can go play if they want to, but it should not be a required event for a national rally championship. After everything is said and done, it is not a rally.

Regards,

Jens
 

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Thanks for asking for input. I have not run the mountian, but between the practice and such it may be hard to fit a proper rally in. The other option may be later that Sunday or Monday for some stage miles.

Either way it has been a dream of mine since I was a kid to run the mountian, hopefully this season I will finally make it. Good Luck with your new venture.

Ralph Kosmides
 

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SURF!!! I'll cover you myself!
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>I feel the sponsors will be interested whether it is part of
>the championship or not.
>
>I vote for the hillclimb to be run as a non-points event but
>everyone is invited to come and play. There are too many
>things about PPIHC that make it too different from a true
>rally. It is a great event to be sure but it is NOT a
>rally.
>
>Mark Utecht

I agree with Mark 100%. It's not a rally at all and should not be made into one, especially a championship round. That being said, having it on the schedule gives many compeditive rallists looking to capture some sponsorship dollars some extra value.


Peter
 

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This is a legitimate question so don't bite my head off. How does it cost more to run Pikes Peak than any other event on the schedule? I paid $900.00 to enter Pikes Peak, paid $850.00 for Rim and $850.00 for Cog. So where is all this added expense?
 

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eating dust taking photos
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Doug if you seriously want to explore the option of stages around PPIHC and you don't know who to contact already I'd very heavily suggest to you that you (like you have the extra time to do this but anyway) go to http://www.coloradorally.org and hit the mailing list with this idea.


To do this in CO you WILL NEED the people on that mailing list. I can tell you right now we would need a ton of support from RA to make it happen but give us that support and who knows. There are roads down there, we have some contacts to help get them, we have some things in the works down in that part of the state but its going to take a lot of work to add the stages down there. That mailing list has the direct access to the people in that area that could and would have to make it happen for you.



Personally I don't think PPIHC is a rally, but I think RA should stick with it none the less. If not just for the history and prestige but for the fact that those people want you there so much you have gotten the oppurtunity to do things that just don't get to happen there. The night stage while the hours sucked was simply unprecedented, and two times up the mountain if the weather hadn't blown on saturday would have been simply un heard of for anyone else.....



Kevin Hahn
CO rally fanatic and aspiring rallyist.
 

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Straight At "T"
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Assuming you're in it for the seat time, the fun of driving, figure your cost per stage mile for all 3 events and let me know what you come up with... If you're really serious about it, you have to figure in the costs of a special tune-up to run from 9,000 to 14,000 feet, special tires (what IS the right tire choice for the Peak anyway?), an oxygen bottle for when you reach the top... ;)

When you relate all of those issues to your average competitor, I think it's more difficult and more expensive for "what you get out of it". But that's just my opinion. Would I show up and run it either way? Absolutely.

Cheers,
-Doug
 

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WRX424 lives in CO, by Pikes Peak. So no need for that special of an engine tune up, low towing, cheap accomodations for the crew (his crew lives within 60 miles of PP).

If you factor in the towing costs, housing costs, and other things when you live in CO to go to places like Rim then that costs permile go up, way up.....
 

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Straight At "T"
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Absolutely Kevin, you guys were who I was referring to when I said "regular organizer". If people want a rally associated with Pike's Peak so it's included in the championship, then we'll take a look at what RA needs to do to make it happen. However it would be silly to have all of us put time and effort into making something happen that nobody appreciates.

Cheers,
-Doug

Edit: I agree we should keep it on the schedule, the discussion at hand is about what form the event should take.
 

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>This is a legitimate question so don't bite my head off.
>How does it cost more to run Pikes Peak than any other event
>on the schedule? I paid $900.00 to enter Pikes Peak, paid
>$850.00 for Rim and $850.00 for Cog. So where is all this
>added expense?

I don't think the added cost is in the entry fee (although, we decided late to enter and cost us $1650, but that was our fault). The added cost is in the week-long stay in hotels, meals for that week and time off of work to be able to make notes and check, recheck, recheck and recheck them again.

At least that was our experience. I think it bodes well for the championship to have it on the schedule. Just think it needs some additional structure for the rallyists' portion.

Mark Tabor
www.taborrallyteam.com
 

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There is a great opportunity to find a lot of stage miles in and around the Pikes Peak area to make this a "true" Rally and I think there are a lot of motivated locals who can make this happen, given the time and the tools. I for one would be able to devote a lot of time and energy to make this happen.
 

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I wouldn't mind hearing from the PPIHC people themselves and find out what they thought about the rally? How did it effect them and their normal routine? Do they want us back with extra stages?

I ran the first year when we just got the one shot up the hill and some practice time. It was definately the highlight of my 19 years in rallying. I very much want to do it again, no matter what form. It seems it could be, if not already is, our most visable event.

John Elkin
"Don't go where the road don't go."- Ringo Starr
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Good point John. Running rally stages did put an extra strain on the PPIHC folks, and it's entirely possible that they just may not be up for doing it again which would eliminate one of our options (running rally stages on the Peak). I'll wait a bit to see what sort of opinions more folks have here, then I'll contact PPIHC and chat with them about what we want to do.

Cheers,
-Doug
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Don't forget that if you run a proper rally outside of Pike's Peak, they get their $900 entry fee and you'll be paying another separate entry fee for the associated rally. That is, unless someone decides to put the rally on for free. So assuming an $800 entry fee for the rally part, how many of you want to pay $1,700 to run a rally in conjunction with Pike's Peak?

Nothing is ever as easy as it might seem at first glance...

Cheers,
-Doug
 

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I know if pikes peak is not part of the championship "I wouldnt run it"

I think that its in a great location ............. plenty of good roads around the mountain ....... Its near a major city ..... Plus it gets alot of press.. I think it would be worth the extra cost
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yep. I thought it would be a bad idea unless you're talking about jogging. Heck I'd probably be faster going up than down...
 
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