Pikes Peak Results
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2,119 Posts
Full results finally posted:
http://www.ppihc.com/2002automobileresults.htm
http://www.ppihc.com/2002automobileresults.htm
After you peruse these times, compare the GpN times to the PGT times of the late 80's at http://www.ppihc.com/winnersindex.htm. These were 2wd cars. By the way, because of rule changes in 1989, it is unlikely Roddy's MX-6 would have passed muster at a PRO Rally(correct for that year). However, it was still a mostly stock production car. There were some very close battles during the height of SCCA's sanction of PPIHC. Unfortunately, only the winners' times are preserved for posterity.
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4,247 Posts
Wow. Crawford's 1987 (13:46.61) run in "my" Shelby Daytona Z would have placed him fourth in Grp N despite the fact there was none of that Pennzuppress (or whatever they call that road treatment), no tarmac and only 2WD.
Interesting. Kind of speaks to the issue of how experience on the hill pays some dividends, eh?
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/pract-01.jpg
Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
Interesting. Kind of speaks to the issue of how experience on the hill pays some dividends, eh?
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/pract-01.jpg
Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
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89 Posts
Lovell's 11:52.6 most closely matches the elder Millen's 1991 11:51.37 ... in an RX-7.
Best Audi time was Walter Rohrl in '87 at 10:47.85, much quicker than Mouton's best 11:25.39 ... despite the commercials.
Fascinating table, thanks for the link! (All is forgiven.)
Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
Best Audi time was Walter Rohrl in '87 at 10:47.85, much quicker than Mouton's best 11:25.39 ... despite the commercials.
Fascinating table, thanks for the link! (All is forgiven.)
Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
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4,247 Posts
>Lovell's 11:52.6 most closely matches the elder Millen's
>1991 11:51.37 ... in an RX-7.
>
>Best Audi time was Walter Rohrl in '87 at 10:47.85, much
>quicker than Mouton's best 11:25.39 ... despite the
>commercials.
>
>Fascinating table, thanks for the link! (All is forgiven.)
>
>Ken Hawley
>Silenus Motorsports
>Kalamazoo, MI
>Audi 4000Q - #577
Couple of points:
As I mentioned in another post - the parts of the highway used for the race were gravel throughout the 80s. There were some road treatments then, for sure, but nothing like the stuff used since the mid-90s that pretty much locked down the loose stuff. And no tarmac at all except that little bit around the Glen Cove guard shack. I'd expect that recent runners have benefited significantly from better grip up to treeline, at least. Rodney's RX-7, by the way, was an AWD machine but I don't believe it was turbocharged (maybe it was in '91).
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/millen.jpg
So far as the last two works Audi runners are concerned, keep in mind that Michelle Mouton was driving something of a worn out rally car in 1985 while Herr Rohrl drove a Quattro in '87 that was pretty much purpose-built for the hillclimb.
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/wrohrl.jpg
Rohrl's rookie run - against a three-car Peugeot 205T16 team - was one of the most astounding drives I've ever witnessed. He won and took the overall record by lopping almost half a minute off Bobby Unser's record set in the same car Audi debuted in '86.
Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
>1991 11:51.37 ... in an RX-7.
>
>Best Audi time was Walter Rohrl in '87 at 10:47.85, much
>quicker than Mouton's best 11:25.39 ... despite the
>commercials.
>
>Fascinating table, thanks for the link! (All is forgiven.)
>
>Ken Hawley
>Silenus Motorsports
>Kalamazoo, MI
>Audi 4000Q - #577
Couple of points:
As I mentioned in another post - the parts of the highway used for the race were gravel throughout the 80s. There were some road treatments then, for sure, but nothing like the stuff used since the mid-90s that pretty much locked down the loose stuff. And no tarmac at all except that little bit around the Glen Cove guard shack. I'd expect that recent runners have benefited significantly from better grip up to treeline, at least. Rodney's RX-7, by the way, was an AWD machine but I don't believe it was turbocharged (maybe it was in '91).
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/millen.jpg
So far as the last two works Audi runners are concerned, keep in mind that Michelle Mouton was driving something of a worn out rally car in 1985 while Herr Rohrl drove a Quattro in '87 that was pretty much purpose-built for the hillclimb.
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/wrohrl.jpg
Rohrl's rookie run - against a three-car Peugeot 205T16 team - was one of the most astounding drives I've ever witnessed. He won and took the overall record by lopping almost half a minute off Bobby Unser's record set in the same car Audi debuted in '86.
Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
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303 Posts
And would you believe.....?
...Don Adams won PGT in 1990. Guess he must have learned how to drive in that Sunbeam Tiger
Thanks for the link Joe. Lots of good information there.
Scott
www.teamharco.com
stop by and feed the animals
Team Harco Motorsports
"Win on Sunday, Sleep on Monday"
...Don Adams won PGT in 1990. Guess he must have learned how to drive in that Sunbeam Tiger
Thanks for the link Joe. Lots of good information there.
Scott
www.teamharco.com
stop by and feed the animals
Team Harco Motorsports
"Win on Sunday, Sleep on Monday"
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971 Posts
Eklund's SAAB
Per Eklund ran 11:13.2 in an "Unlimited Class" 2000 SAAB. Anyone have info on this car?
Rich Smith
Per Eklund ran 11:13.2 in an "Unlimited Class" 2000 SAAB. Anyone have info on this car?
Rich Smith
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89 Posts
> ... keep in mind that Michelle Mouton was driving something of a
>worn out rally car in 1985 while Herr Rohrl drove a Quattro
>in '87 that was pretty much purpose-built for the hillclimb.
Do we detect a wee defense of the charming Mlle. Mouton? Hard not to admire her. Thanks for information Mike.
On a new tack ... Does anyone know what actually happened to either Millen or O'Neil. They both smoked their opening splits and then faded badly.
Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
>worn out rally car in 1985 while Herr Rohrl drove a Quattro
>in '87 that was pretty much purpose-built for the hillclimb.
Do we detect a wee defense of the charming Mlle. Mouton? Hard not to admire her. Thanks for information Mike.
On a new tack ... Does anyone know what actually happened to either Millen or O'Neil. They both smoked their opening splits and then faded badly.
Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
RE: Eklund's SAAB
Probably much like his European Rally-X car:
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/991205.html
Ed
Probably much like his European Rally-X car:
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/991205.html
Ed
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4,247 Posts
Post-Pubescent silliness - was - Pikes Peak Results
Ken said:
>Do we detect a wee defense of the charming Mlle. Mouton?
>Hard not to admire her. Thanks for information Mike.
I'll cop the plea! What a woman!! :9
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/moved/Michelle.jpg
And then there's Diana Rigg (Mrs. Peel on the Avengers) whose TV appearances complicated at least one Yank's post-pubescentness ...
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/emma/chassis.jpg
I'll stop with the revelations before this post spirals COMPLETELY off topic ...
Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
Ken said:
>Do we detect a wee defense of the charming Mlle. Mouton?
>Hard not to admire her. Thanks for information Mike.
I'll cop the plea! What a woman!! :9
http://www.realautosport.com/pics/moved/Michelle.jpg
And then there's Diana Rigg (Mrs. Peel on the Avengers) whose TV appearances complicated at least one Yank's post-pubescentness ...
http://www.dissolute.com.au/avweb/emma/chassis.jpg
I'll stop with the revelations before this post spirals COMPLETELY off topic ...
Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
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265 Posts
RE: Eklund's SAAB
It is a purpose-built car that looks like a Saab 9-3. I believe it was built by Prodrive and has a custom 4WD setup mated to a Saab 4-cyl turbo engine that puts out over 600 hp. Think of it as a European Rallycross car that has been adapted to the unique requirements of Pikes Peak.
The body is mostly carbon fiber, but you have to be standing next to the car to see that.
http://www.subaru.net/events/2002/Pikes_Peak/Pre-event_Images/P6270018.jpg
More photos at http://www.subaru.net/events/2002/Pikes_Peak/Pre-event_Images/index.htm
It is a purpose-built car that looks like a Saab 9-3. I believe it was built by Prodrive and has a custom 4WD setup mated to a Saab 4-cyl turbo engine that puts out over 600 hp. Think of it as a European Rallycross car that has been adapted to the unique requirements of Pikes Peak.
The body is mostly carbon fiber, but you have to be standing next to the car to see that.
http://www.subaru.net/events/2002/Pikes_Peak/Pre-event_Images/P6270018.jpg
More photos at http://www.subaru.net/events/2002/Pikes_Peak/Pre-event_Images/index.htm
>
>On a new tack ... Does anyone know what actually happened to
>either Millen or O'Neil. They both smoked their opening
>splits and then faded badly.
Hi Ken,
I was on the plane back with Tim, he mentioned he had troubles with the altitude, which may have been the cause. I know I had trouble with it, I only did the test day at 12,500ft from 3:30 am until 9:30 am. the second day I stayed below 10,000ft since I had to stay from 3:30am until 5pm. At the top I felt like I did a whip it (inhaling the nitrous oxide from a whip cream can)it was a great buzz but I got a severe headache. Being a land lubber here in Boston, there was no way I could aclimate.
>On a new tack ... Does anyone know what actually happened to
>either Millen or O'Neil. They both smoked their opening
>splits and then faded badly.
Hi Ken,
I was on the plane back with Tim, he mentioned he had troubles with the altitude, which may have been the cause. I know I had trouble with it, I only did the test day at 12,500ft from 3:30 am until 9:30 am. the second day I stayed below 10,000ft since I had to stay from 3:30am until 5pm. At the top I felt like I did a whip it (inhaling the nitrous oxide from a whip cream can)it was a great buzz but I got a severe headache. Being a land lubber here in Boston, there was no way I could aclimate.
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89 Posts
>Evo VII probably had much more power than WRX above 12000
>feet ?
Interesting difference in GpN vs. Open. All the GpN Subies, except Workum*, faded in the last three segments. The biggest loss of time was between the Cove and the Bottomless Pit -- is that the steepest part of the course?
Since both top Open Subies were the same works outfit, they performed relatively the same, as you would expect, i.e. Lagemann did not fall further behind Lovell as the run went on. Likewise, Havir and Peterson both faded only slightly in the top two splits, not nearly as much as the GpN boys.
The conclusion has to be that the altitude affected the GpN cars more than the Open cars -- that is to be expected.
The interesting thing is that both Choiniere and O'Sullivan made up time on Lovell in the last sections ... a hint that the Open Subies may have liked the altitude less than the others.
The question would be ... do the Subies start with less power or are they more affected by altitude or both? Or is it a weight issue? As the cars transition from "more power than you can lay down" to "not nearly enough power" does a Subie weight disadvantage come into play?
(*Note - Workum's not fading had more to do with his terrible first split than the car ... he was moving from the back of the pack.)
Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
BTW - I've got a spreadsheet with all this analysis on it. Email me for a copy. Don't have anywhere convenient to post right now.
>feet ?
Interesting difference in GpN vs. Open. All the GpN Subies, except Workum*, faded in the last three segments. The biggest loss of time was between the Cove and the Bottomless Pit -- is that the steepest part of the course?
Since both top Open Subies were the same works outfit, they performed relatively the same, as you would expect, i.e. Lagemann did not fall further behind Lovell as the run went on. Likewise, Havir and Peterson both faded only slightly in the top two splits, not nearly as much as the GpN boys.
The conclusion has to be that the altitude affected the GpN cars more than the Open cars -- that is to be expected.
The interesting thing is that both Choiniere and O'Sullivan made up time on Lovell in the last sections ... a hint that the Open Subies may have liked the altitude less than the others.
The question would be ... do the Subies start with less power or are they more affected by altitude or both? Or is it a weight issue? As the cars transition from "more power than you can lay down" to "not nearly enough power" does a Subie weight disadvantage come into play?
(*Note - Workum's not fading had more to do with his terrible first split than the car ... he was moving from the back of the pack.)
Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
BTW - I've got a spreadsheet with all this analysis on it. Email me for a copy. Don't have anywhere convenient to post right now.
RE: Eklund's SAAB
i've read that the factory claims 750hp with prodrive gearbox and four-wheel drive. does anyone know where i can get one stateside?
i saw it last year at the peak, throwing huge flames, but broken gear box, louder than a train and a turbo bigger than a jet engine.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
Does anyone know what car stig blomquist was driving? really curious to know, thanks.
noah
i've read that the factory claims 750hp with prodrive gearbox and four-wheel drive. does anyone know where i can get one stateside?
i saw it last year at the peak, throwing huge flames, but broken gear box, louder than a train and a turbo bigger than a jet engine.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
Does anyone know what car stig blomquist was driving? really curious to know, thanks.
noah
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908 Posts
RE: Eklund's SAAB
here is what Stig drove
for more pics click multimedia
-george
BTW the hill was awsome, a lot of us had problems with the cars.
I think next year we will all go much faster now that we have some experience and know how to set our cars up and what variety of tires to bring.
I ran into some ECU problems, lost power steering halfway up before the W's and then the car was overheating bad in the lst 3 miles, had to back it off considerably. But over all pleased with the new car, considering it was its 1st time out.
here is what Stig drove
for more pics click multimedia
-george
BTW the hill was awsome, a lot of us had problems with the cars.
I think next year we will all go much faster now that we have some experience and know how to set our cars up and what variety of tires to bring.
I ran into some ECU problems, lost power steering halfway up before the W's and then the car was overheating bad in the lst 3 miles, had to back it off considerably. But over all pleased with the new car, considering it was its 1st time out.
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22 Posts
RE: Eklund's SAAB
George,
You forgot to mention the marmot that tried to play "chicken" with you on the course.
Sue
George,
You forgot to mention the marmot that tried to play "chicken" with you on the course.
Sue
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