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don't cut
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Ok, now I'm pissed again. Take a look at the pic at http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID30/863.html (sorry, I dunno how to post pics so you'll have to click over and look). This is from Pikes Peak, which just so happens to be a SCCA sanctioned event. Let me repeat that, A SCCA SANCTIONED EVENT! How in the hell is this allowable??? For crying out loud, pre-Sawmill this would never have been allowed, much less now. And don't give me any crap about it being a "special" event, a hillclimb, etc.. It's a rally, we sanction it, we insure it, and our name is on it. When someone knocks those idiots off the mountian, it's our premiums that will skyrocket, and our event costs that will soar. Whatever happened to safety first and all the other BS that has been forced upon the rest of the rally organizers?

There has been a lot of talk as to whether PPIHC should be a part of the calender because of costs, stage miliage, etc.... Well after seeing this, I think the SCCA should get as far away from this event as possible!

As long as we continue to sanction this event, it should be run under OUR rules, and OUR safety standards, because OUR ass is on the line. Anything else is quite simply an irresponsible and dangerous use of our sport by the SCCA. PPIHC may be a crown jewel of North American rally, but is it worth losing the entire kingdom over?


Dennis (beating my head against the wall) Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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600 /CR !!! R2>
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Just to play devil's advocate...Remember that this is quite a long telephoto shot, so distances are compressed, so most of the spectators are further back than it seems. Also, unlike most rallies, most of the drivers are less likely to make a mistake because they know the road so well. And finally, as was mentioned on the other thread, they were soon all chased away from that spot.

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland
 

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eating dust taking photos
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That was the second car, and they were being yelled at after hot sweep came through. After that car went through the worker crossed the road and chased them away.


It was not allowed or tollerated.


You would have had to ahve been there, I was in the lower turn just a bit down (standing next to the photog that took that shot).



Being familair wit hthe turn as I am, I wouldn't dare stand anywhere outside but where the banners were. The banners afford a nice distance from the line, ample time to react to a car clearly able to not turn and many escape options are available at that time.


The majority of the people that were on the outside of that turn should not have been allowed to be there and were not allowed to be there.


This is a case of a course worker being reactive instead of proactive, although the worker then over reacted.


Pictures never tell the whole story.
 

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Retired Rally Photographer
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>That was the second car, and they were being yelled at after
>hot sweep came through. After that car went through the
>worker crossed the road and chased them away.

They shouldn't have ran a single car with them there.

Pete
 

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Some of those excuses seem a little lame. Believe it or not, drivers occasionally do go off, even when they are quite familiar with the road. So maybe it is just "trick" photography that puts all those people are on the outside of that curve.

I'm sure the spectator areas were all well defined in the official safety plan or else the safety steward wouldn't have approved the event. Then the required advance vehicles made sure all spectators were in the approved spectator areas before the start. See Dennis, you don't have anything to worry about. (Note, tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Jim Culp
[http://wildwestrally.com]
 

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your other left, you idiot
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Well, obviously Dennis, there was a sanction exemption for this.

It was on the notice board, right?

press on,
 

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eating dust taking photos
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>>That was the second car, and they were being yelled at after
>>hot sweep came through. After that car went through the
>>worker crossed the road and chased them away.
>
>They shouldn't have ran a single car with them there.
>
>Pete







And there are never stories of course workers letting people run accross a hot stage or set up in lawn chairs on the outside of fast turns in any other rallys right?


Its not an excuse but an explanation, a lot of the sweep guys were around in the hay day, where the road was lined with parked cars and people.




There are basically no restrictions on where people can go as long as its not outright dangerous. The only real spectator restriction is where they can park.

In 3 years this is the first time I have seen people there.



One thing nobody seems to realize is that at Devil's Playground about half the people don't get out of their cars until the first car leaves the start line, takes 9 or so minutes to get there.


Those people weren't there when sweep went through.........


It WAS a course worker failure. I was there, I watched the people move into standing there, and I watched safety see them, and I watched safety move them.
 

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eating dust taking photos
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Leon, do you know how far up the peak it was?

Just curious, it wasn't where I was (and most rally guys were cutting that turn sharp, see photo in the spot on dougie thread)
 

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50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
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Notice board hehe, haha, yeah- I remember reading it with my nomex socks on hehe. Yeah - I think it was at the World Arena. - hehe.

Actually, Dennis is correct- Last year we had a spectator run across the road
just a few feet in front of us. - Too bad the camera had shut off after our spin/stall. Missed all of our "colorful" language.
 

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Prize money?

I'm curious that with all of the "special exceptions" that were made with regard to PPIHC,

Was there any prize money for the event?

As the "Crown Jewel" of the SCCA schedule and world wide attention, sponsors, blah, blah, I'm wondering what the rewards were?

Or did you get a nice plaque and a pat on the back?

Brian
 

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RE: Prize money?

I belive that if you enterd the SCCA PRO RALLY "Trophy only" class you didnt get any loot, but the non-scca class paid a purse but how much?

"Awards and purse disbursement will be governed by the official race results and are contingent upon adherence to eligibility requirements, rules and regulations. The payment of contingency prizes in all divisions will be determined by the company providing the contingency. The PPAHCEM Board of Directors will determine the final purse."

Larry
 

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RE: Prize money?

Dennis you are looking at this totally wrong! THis just proves that all of the draconian spectator rules are not effective. See we were able to run an entire Pro Rally event without any spectator control without any problems. BTW your brakes are in give me a call this week. ;)
 

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Hey Dennis,

Before you beat your head too much, you should realize that Pikes is not an SCCA sanctioned event, rather a PPIHC sanctioned event that allows the SCCA guys to run in conjunction with the Hill Climb guys. SCCA does not provide any insurance for the race nor any money for the television package. Pikes has allowed this type of spectator participation for 82 years, maybe that is why people have actually heard of the event. How many people do you suppose have heard of STPR or any other Rally that they can't go spectate. As far as money goes, I didn't know people actually made money Rallying in America.
 

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I made this suggestion to TPTB at STPR. Don't know if it has a chance, but here it is:

Have a real organizing committee and hold a real rally. Register and tech on Thursday. Run real stages(the old Westcliffe roads would do fine) on Friday. It wouldn't be too hard to come up with 90 miles. Run Pikes Peak with everyone else on Saturday, as the last stage of the "Pikes Peak ProRally presented by he who gets free exposure". While it is true that The Hillclimb would happen under PPIHC standards and practices, the rest of PPPRpbhwgfe would be run by SCCA to SCCA rules and practices. Thus, competitors would get a real rally, and SCCA would get the exposure that comes from being part of The Hillclimb. It would happen in the same three days that have become standard for a ProRally.
 

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eating dust taking photos
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A lot of effort was put into running a rally in the same area as the PPIHC and using PPIHC as a super special for the penultimate stage. This effort ended up falling appart, not for a lack of roads, we could probably put together a could thousand miles of worthy roads without too much effort, its getting the permits and all the other crap that keep posing challenges (we just lost the permit for a short hill climb after scheduling in competitor particiaption in a lot of other promotional things for the city, this is 3 weeks before the event).

Nobody talks about it but the Sierra Club has been becoming a real problem around here. Nobody will fight them and their money, too many groups are just rolling over under the pressure.


I think the perfect way to use PPIHC is as the penultimate stage of a big rally. To make it a super special on a stand alone last day of a rally.
Good luck making that happen, because Lord knows its going to be a very steep and long up hill battle.






Just so nobody gets the wrong idea PPIHC=FIA sanction......
 

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>Have a real organizing committee and hold a real rally.
>Register and tech on Thursday. Run real stages(the old
>Westcliffe roads would do fine) on Friday. It wouldn't be
>too hard to come up with 90 miles. Run Pikes Peak with
>everyone else on Saturday, ....

I talked with Kurt about this (after thanking him for helping us out with windshield cleaning stuff) and he indicated that getting the roads was not the problem--it was asking competitors to prepare their cars for two completely separate setups, one tarmac-like smooth (the hill climb) and one gravel (all the rest). I have to agree with him that it would've been way too much of a hardship on our members to run such dissimilar stages on such a "fluid" schedule as presented by PPIHC.

P.S. Who's TPTB?

[hr]

[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
 
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