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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Supplementary Regulations for the Perce-Neige are now on line.

Descriptive stage notes being supplied. There will be a notes familiarization pass (rally cars permitted).

No information on who is making the notes.

Doug Woods
 

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Faster Mabricator
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3,611 Posts
Now you've done it.......

Provided Keith a post to inquire about the processes, rules and tribulations thereof to complain about in case he decides to compete in some upcoming year.:+

Anyone need a codriver?
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
RE: Now you've done it.......

Acutally - the PN sups are clear, and the CARS rules regarding recce on familiarisation passes have been clarified, nothing to complain about here.
At the moment, I do expect to be competing at Perce Neige.
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
RE: Now you've done it.......

>... and the CARS rules
>regarding recce on familiarisation passes have been clarified,

Keith:

Do you have any further information on that?

Doug Woods
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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RE: Now you've done it.......

Nothing other than Paul Westwick's take in the other thread.

He suggested that if competitors were allowed to do a familiarisation pass and were allowed to make adjustmenst to the notes, that adjustment could include scrapping them all together and writing their own pace notes.

I'll quickly chime in that doing your own notes on a single pass is unwise (at best) and it would appear that Perece Neige is doing a single pass caravan FP... which would be even less conducive to pace noting.

Personally, I'm just glad that it won't be a tulip book only event :)
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RE: Now you've done it.......

>Personally, I'm just glad that it won't be a tulip book only
>event :)

Keith:

Agreed. I have spoken to several competitors who were reluctant to return to Perce-Neige, without some form of notes.

It will be interesting to see how the organizer supplied notes are prepared. It is quite a challenge for the organizers to even hold this event. Quite often, the route cannot be finalized until very close to the rally since the final layout depends on snowmobile and logging activity in the area.

In addition, sometimes the stages are not plowed until the night before the event. This has often resulted in the already printed route book requiring many, many changes on the day of the event. So, making notes several weeks before the rally, so they can be prepared, printed and bound, could be lead to some inconsistencies. Typically, the stages go where ever the snow plow driver decided to drive, so corners can change dramatically overnight. I guess that is what the NFP is for. :)

However, this is an excellent step forward for the rally.

Doug Woods
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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RE: Now you've done it.......

>So, making notes several weeks before the
>rally, so they can be prepared, printed and bound, could be
>lead to some inconsistencies. Typically, the stages go where
>ever the snow plow driver decided to drive, so corners can
>change dramatically overnight. I guess that is what the NFP
>is for. :)

Interestingly - you might think that a recce only event would be easier on the organisers in this case. If significant changes to prepared notes is in order ... that's a ton more work than starting from scratch (IMHO)
 

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Faster Mabricator
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PN ever-changing conditions/roads

>In addition, sometimes the stages are not plowed until the
>night before the event. This has often resulted in the
>already printed route book requiring many, many changes on the
>day of the event. So, making notes several weeks before the
>rally, so they can be prepared, printed and bound, could be
>lead to some inconsistencies. Typically, the stages go where
>ever the snow plow driver decided to drive, so corners can
>change dramatically overnight. I guess that is what the NFP
>is for. :)

My last PN ended while coming around a nice extra-long left-hand sweeper that the plow operator widened the road like a super-highway. It was difficult to tell where in the road we should be and soon enough our line ended at a 15-20 foot high snow/ice pile where he had deposited all the snow from that widened curve. It bounced us across the road and into snowbank on other side.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/803000-803999/803556_19_full.jpg

Recent history also includes Nichols endo over yumps & bumps in the Lachute Subaru and the !! ice-puddle that seemed to catch everyone by surprise (think the milage was incorrect).



I'm all for a route familarization pass.
 

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RE: PN ever-changing conditions/roads

having done this event blind while embroiled in a battle for the lead on several seperate occasions, (as many others have as well) I can say that this rally will benefit HUGELY from a familiarization pass, even if it is pre-plow or whatever. All you have to do is give the plow driver some good instructions. But of COURSE the best case is you recce post plow. But whatever, even if you dont, this rally is plain scary blind when pushing. But maybe thats the fun part, knowing you cant stop so dont even try and just forget about it and keep it flowing. A good example is 'discovering' out how far 'out' your ODO is on a 45km stage with lots of wheelspin and 1k+ between instructions...


With recce you always have to have the plow in mind, even at "big name" events like sweeden etc. Without notes but no familiarization, I think Perce would still be pretty scary, because the roads are narrow so the plow is a big factor which is compounded by the subjectiveness of others' notes. But I remember many times sandbagging so someone else would be the first 'victim' on the road.

Recce might be easier on the organizers but lets give them a great thanks for allowing this to happen. It is a big step forward. Now we have the entire championship aligned. This is one of my favorite driving rallies and now its just a whole lot better. I would expect Sylvain to be untouchable if he is in it this year, in this configuration.

-Pat
 

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TG Dog/dogbox /LSD for any car
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585 Posts
RE: Now you've done it.......

Hi Dave!

I would be happy if you would be my navigator at Perce Neige. I will run in Grp 2, and I have no co driver at the moment. Jodie Shay was on my right at Tall Pines .
 

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Dirt surfer
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1,367 Posts
RE: PN ever-changing conditions/roads

I remember going by the shindle/dube off scene. the snowbank was so high, we had to look UP to see shindle standing waist-deep in snow, shoveling hopelessly.

sans notes at PN, there but for the grace of the rally gods go any of us.

great news about adding a peek at the stages before we hang our butts out on the tulips.


Dave G
www.lastditchracing.net

"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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have to agree,

Recce is a great experience for driver/co-driver to work on their ...."teamwork skills", but this often proves not only exceedingly stressful, but very time consuming and exhausting. Not a good combo day before a rally

Im sure even the top teams would agree the fam. pass is an excellent method as it still requires teamwork to clarify the notes, and is often written by top competitors (so you know they're damn good). while still fitting in with the event schedule.

Im all for it, P/N is certainly a drivers rally, and I wouldnt miss it for the world


(thanks for the tip...we'll take some extra time to figure out a solid "factor" for this event)

AW
 

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Faster !!!!
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768 Posts
>http://www.rallyeperceneige.com/
>
>Looking forward to it!


ME TOOOOOO !!!!


Thanks Alan


... if any people "connected" with PN are reading this,
could y'all post a Timecard Explanation in English ?
(for us here southerners ...)

"Mercy Bo"

Oh yeah, are the notes going to be DESCRIPTIVE ?
(not numeric ????)
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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Ole,
The discussions in canada surrounding notes generally differenciate between pace notes adn 'descrptive' stage notes where the carachter of the road is described ... using numbers.

I am expecting to see jemba-like note style, proabably authored by a respected inactive competitor. I would be interested in who has been identified as the note writer and (tagentially) how one determines the qualifications to do so (with a fam.pass)
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
RE: Perce-Neige Weather Update

I live about one hour from where the Perce-Neige stages are run.

Last night there was 34 cm (I measured it) of new snow dumped on us (most of it in my driveway).

After the driveway was cleared, I went out for a little blast to see if I had remembered anything from my session at Tim O'Neil's this past summer.

Doug Woods
 

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Dirt surfer
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1,367 Posts
RE: Perce-Neige Weather Update

> 34 cm (I measured it) of new snow ... I went out for a little blast
>to see if I had remembered anything from my session at Tim
>O'Neil's this past summer.
>
>Doug Woods


And here we all thought you might be an actual ADULT, Doug.

Guess not. Whew! }( }( }(

DG
 
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