Special Stage Forums banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,
My friend and I want to buy a rally car to compete in. Since we are rally novices, (both of us are still in high school) we are limited to Open Light or 2WD. Which one is easier to keep up? Which one is easier to race? Which one is cheaper in general? etc. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

- Aaron F.
 

·
your other left, you idiot
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
Welcome to the looney bin.

Read all the stickies.

Stay in school and finish. This is a stupid $$$ sport.

Neither is easy. Neither is cheap.

You are only restricted in RA. There is also NASA and CARS. 2 wheels are almost always cheaper than 4 (and certainly more fun - no bias here).

Hi everyone,
My friend and I want to buy a rally car to compete in. Since we are rally novices, (both of us are still in high school) we are limited to Open Light or 2WD. Which one is easier to keep up? Which one is easier to race? Which one is cheaper in general? etc. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

- Aaron F.
press on,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,246 Posts
i think it also depends on who is competeing where you are. here in MN there are a good amount of G2 cars in the area so there are a lot of people to race with.

i am in the same boat and i have decided that G2 is the way to go for me for the above reason.

what is your end goal?

i think your best option is a AWD subaru. that way you can run it in G2 if you get a FWD trans. then later you could convert it back to awd and run it in open light if you wanted and if you havent destroyed it after a couple seasons you could convert it to awd turbo and go for the gold in open.

or stay in g2 or light if you want. the choices are endless and all that is holding you back is money.
 

·
Head first, balls deep!
Joined
·
706 Posts
i think your best option is a AWD subaru. that way you can run it in G2 if you get a FWD trans. then later you could convert it back to awd and run it in open light if you wanted....
stupid question, but is it really that simple? swap out tranny, remove driveshaft and replace the rear end...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,246 Posts
stupid question, but is it really that simple? swap out tranny, remove driveshaft and replace the rear end...?
pretty much.

you can get a pre 96 FWD trans or there are kits to make an AWD trans into FWD and you would need to put some Dummy half shafts in the back to fill up the wheel bearings.

it is much easier to make a AWD subaru FWD than it is to make an FWD subaru AWD mainly because of the fuel tank differences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My goal is to make rallying a career or atleast have fun with it and if it's easy to convert between AWD and FWD then a AWD Subaru would be a good platform to start with. Freeskier, what kind of car is it?
 

·
The Scorpion King
Joined
·
678 Posts
Very different agendas.

Both start with a 2WD car.

One only needs ~$7,000

One needs at least $700,000
I was about to post something like this, though I am not sure that the numbers are quite that far apart. The other thing that needs to be said is that if it's really a career goal, most any dollars spent rallying on this side of the pond are a waste of valuable resources. You could buy a fairly decent used car, or rent one, enter it in a couple of events, then re-evaluate. If you really want to take the career route, it's off to Europe you go, or some other place where there is a championship where you can get noticed and get significant funding on the way up. Take a serious look at the career progression of the guys who are now getting paid to drive. You should also note that there are really three kinds of rally drivers (1) those that get paid a salary to drive, such as most WRC drivers, (2) those that don't pay to drive, and may occasionally get paid to drive a particular event, or get some sort of small stipend to drive a series, and (3) those that pay to drive, which is almost everyone in the US.

--
John
 

·
Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
in general a 2wd car should be cheaper than an open light car. both can be done really cheap but a 2wd just has less parts.
But they are stressed higher.
An unmodified OL Subaru has more grip than power
so it won't spin tires and won't stress axles.
A stock NA Subaru will work well and last a long time, just don't make more power and don't shift like an animal.
A stock 2wd drivetrain will be painfully slow off the line and out of hairpins and burn out one tire. Most 2wd guys choose to attend to the diff and then the fun begins.

Is making a Subaru 2wd easy?
Yes it is, but I can't see why anyone would want to.
I did and it was painful to lose all the benefits of 4wd.
With fwd, you stress the axles more and every fwd box I've had has smaller CVs and axles so I welded the center diff and pulled the fronts out to run rwd.
The RS rear diff and rear axles are not big enough to take all the power alone, I snapped one just a few stages in. The 2.2 diff and axles are smaller still. Sti diffs and axles are big (expensive).
I don't know what diffs and axles Don and Greg used with their 2.2 4wd cars but I never remember them having problems.

Scott Trinder and I ran 2 NA Subarus in 2 CDN Nationals in 2 weeks.
We both ran top 7 OA in both events. Scott opened the hood once because the TV crew wanted to shoot him "servicing". The only service mine needed was to replace a control arm I bent on an apex rock. Mine drove round trip from Calgary to Edmonton too, no trailer, no service truck or crew. Try that with 2wd.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,246 Posts
never said a FWD subaru was the best thing ever, just that it can be done.

randy, you have found the FWD subaru front cv axles to be smaller? i was told that the FWD axles were initially bigger than the AWD ones untill subaru choose to make them all the same as the FWD axles. now they are all the same as far as i can tell.

L is and awesome class and that is definately where i would go with an AWD car. especially if more people would build L cars and keep them there. and that is NOT a shot at you or izzy, carl.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,246 Posts
You can run a FWD Subaru if you want, but you'll get your ass handed to you by better cars designed for FWD.

And yet another newcomer who thinks that Open is the only endgame in rallying. Interesting.
aside from the engine being so far forward of the axles what makes a subaru so bad for FWD? at least the engine is lower in the chassis than a audi/vw, and arent those in front of the axles too? not trying to start a fight i really want to know and you have driven more different FWD cars than i have.

i like that the subaru axles are the same left and right and they really arent prone to torque steer.

the do need a good front LSD and the stock FWD ratio is a terrible 3.70. but a converted 4.44 awd box with a good diff would work pretty well i think. not perfect but not terrible.

getting off the subaru train for a bit.

another great car to grow with is a volvo. if you can find a nice shell you can build an awesome G2 car that can grow into a solid turbo or V-8 G5 car. i really like the way the 80s coupes look.

honda civics are starting to get kind of popular lately too.
 

·
Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
http://www.cars101.com/impreza_archive93_96.html#1994%20impreza
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]1996 Impreza
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]All models are now all-wheel-drive

I don't work at a dealer and don't know everything but the ones I had were all small CV.

Non-turbo Subaru's are not horsepower monsters, not more than average at best.
Not as light as a Honda or VW, nor as wimpy either.
The big deal is the package.
Grippy, tough and adequate.
Add ubiquitous, cheap and lego-like and its a good car to rally.

[/FONT]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,246 Posts
http://www.cars101.com/impreza_archive93_96.html#1994%20impreza
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]1996 Impreza
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]All models are now all-wheel-drive

I don't work at a dealer and don't know everything but the ones I had were all small CV.

Non-turbo Subaru's are not horsepower monsters, not more than average at best.
Not as light as a Honda or VW, nor as wimpy either.
The big deal is the package.
Grippy, tough and adequate.
Add ubiquitous, cheap and lego-like and its a good car to rally.

[/FONT]
i thought the dealer mechanic that i deal with for all my subaru info told me the early awd axles were smaller. but i could be rememberign it backwards. wither way i know that my old FWD legacy now has the larger CV axles on it.

i agree with you about the bonuses of the subaru. they are tough cars that do the job well. i realy like the driving position and the fact that all the important lines are routed inside the car. i think subarus have a nice wheelbase too for our roads. and the potential for upgrades is only limited by your wallet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
+1 on the Volvo. Very inexpensive, lots of spares at the u-pull-it, easy to make reliable. You can start in G2 and progress into G5 with a simple motor upgrade.

And, RWD is too much fun!
 

·
RallyX Weenie
Joined
·
672 Posts
You should also note that there are really three kinds of rally drivers (1) those that get paid a salary to drive, such as most WRC drivers
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that, for most WRC drivers, they're able to round up enough sponsorship themselves so they effectively get paid a salary to drive?

I'd think there's only a select few (Mikko, Sebs, etc) who really just get paid to drive. The rest of the field running WRC cars probably have more of a career description of 'funding/sponsorship finding' rather than 'rally driving'?
 

·
Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
i thought the dealer mechanic that i deal with for all my subaru info told me the early awd axles were smaller. but i could be rememberign it backwards. wither way i know that my old FWD legacy now has the larger CV axles on it...
I've been meaning the output shafts on the 2wd diff were a smaller size.
The AWD axles are different dia on 2.2 and RS but the splines are the same on the diff. Some fwd diffs may be the bigger size, I don't know.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top