[Flyboy]

Another random thought from a rainy day at work (yes I'm working on Labor Day, all us rich Evo owners do).

We keep waiting for the SCCA to work a deal with a manufacturer for a one make series, and predictably they can't make it happen. So my question is why are waiting for them? While help from a manufacturer or the SCCA would be nice, what's to stop an entreprenour from starting his/her own one make series?

I got an idea from that waste of tree the SCCA sends out, SportsCar, this morning. In it was an ad for an arrive and drive 10 race series in a Radical D sports car. They took care of everything, and they had their own championship. Winner got a funded ride for next season. The whole thing was run out of one shop who owned all the cars. Would people be interested in something like this for rally?

Start with a cheap base car that has proven rally heritage, like a new Neon, Focus, or VW. Prep it to limited Gr2 spec. Stuff like shocks and HID's would be cheap cuz your buying 40 not 4. Lease the car for an entire season, including tires, fuel, service, maintence, etc. Everyone uses a spec tire, and everyone gets the same amount. Hold a $5k damage waiver to cover accidents. Promote the crap out of it. End of the year winner gets a free ride next year, second and third get discounts. Entire thing is run out of one shop which will do all the builds, maintence, and event service. Drivers just show and race.

I haven't run any numbers yet, but I imagine that to make this profitable (there's that dirty word) for the series owner we would probably be talking around $5k an event, or $50k a season. That seems pretty steep, but I dunno the finances of everyone out there. Think it would be possible to get 10 drivers for something like this? Any shops or entreprenours willing to step up for this?

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Whining about work :')

>Another random thought from a rainy day at work (yes I'm
>working on Labor Day, all us rich Evo owners do).
>
No whining about work. At least your working "at home" (ie. your normal job). I'm working 800 miles away from home, atleast 14 hours today and I started last night at 7 PM. And will work 12+ hours days for 3 more days. And I'm not a rich Evo owner (BTW, if you're a rich Evo owner, why is the car for sale }> ???) I have no thoughts concerning your proposal other than I don't think the sport is big enough yet to truely support a 1 make series/class.

 

[dano9988]

RE: Whining about work :')

At work as well, beautiful fall day, not a cloud in the sky. Just'a' sittin' here thinking that is not a bad idea.

How many people spend 5K and event? I would bet lots do and not at the sharp end of the field either.

The trick would be to promote the hell out of it to create awareness and excitement.

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Whining about work :')

I don't spend nearly that much (of course I only travel to 1 event each year that is more than ~500 miles away from home). Maybe if you factor in car purchase/prep, wear and tear and consumables it's higher than I think. But I still don't think it's close to 5K.

 

[Ray]

>Start with a cheap base car that has proven rally heritage,
>like a new Neon, Focus, or VW. Prep it to limited Gr2 spec.

>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845

Maybe it would be better to build P/class cars.
Cheaper than G/2 and people could learn how to make a slow car go fast.

Whiplash RallyeSport

 

[talon763]

That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't be more cost effective to make production VW or Neon into a one design class. I would think that more people would be able to compete in that class.

Scott

 

[Greg Donovan]

i think dennis meant bridge between P and G2.

like a GTI w/better gearing, brakes, and durability modifiaction not allowed in P.

i would like to see a low cost version of this in club.

i envision something like spec miata or rx-7 road racing stuff.

essentialy this is what we have now in G2 here in cendiv w/all the VWs. just need some more finessing and a few more cars and we are good to go.

 

[Kevin Hawkinson]

FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER EVENT?!?!?!
Are you on crack?
No freakin wonder this sport is so stinkin small.

Here's a hint: figure out how to do it for 1/5th of that, THEN you'll have some interest.



Really, I am seriously DISGUSTED that you think that's an appropriate sum for ANYBODY to spend on this.

 

[rallytaff]

$50,000 for a season? That's more than the entire amount I've spent rallying since 1979! Any ideas where anyone could come up with that sort of money without mortgaging the house or using plastic? (Tore mine up years ago!). Nice idea, but I'll leave it to the rich kids. For me it's fun and cheap the way I do it (many others too, I bet) not a debt I want to get into. PS. It's supposed to be 102 here today in Los Angeles!

 

[Greg Donovan]

it doesnt have to be for everyone, just the 10 peoplein america that can/want to spend that kind of money.

if that fee were to cover ALL expenses for the weekend like hotel and food that would be a little better. but of course less would be better.

i heard that someone could have bought a new viper w/the money spent to win a class championship a couple years ago and it wasnt a open class car or a manufacturer. it was a privateer w/a "cheap" car.

 

[Bruce]

I don't think anybody is going to line up to do this on either side, Dennis. If you run it like the road racing guys, the prep shop transports the cars and provides onsite support...so five large a weekend wouldn't pay the bills. And the damage waiver amount would have to be closer to the price of the car...you can do $5000 damage to a car and still win your class. Another downside for a privateer running the series is that he'd have to buy cars and parts at retail, unlike a manufacturer.

On the other side, you've heard from those who think $5000 is WAY TOO MUCH to spend...although I think some might be surprised if they really counted up every expense on a rally weekend. Even with the one-price series, you'd still have to fly/drive to the event, feed yourself, and rent a place to sleep.

Bruce

 

[RichardM]

I'll be glad to fund it. Just as soon as I win a couple of big lotteries.

And Kevin, I can easily spend $5000 event if you add up all the hotels, deisel fuel to and from the event, drinks in the bar etc. etc.

Richard
PS: Now you know why I don't rally that often.

 

[JD Ackley]

your listed email address doesn't work

 

[rallytaff]

Damn! I'm pi$$ed if my total comes to around $500/$600 for EVERYTHING for a weekend! OK, I don't have a service crew, who needs one with a reliable Toyota! Like I say, I do it on a budget.

 

[Guest]

I would like to hear who your prosepective customers are.

What are their current hobbies?

Do they rally now?

Why or why not?

What is the big advantage to a one make series?

Is it cost savings?

Increased competition?

Exposure?




If you wanted people to go really crazy for "it", have the winner get a couple of international rounds. Getting a "free" year in a series where you've shown yourself to be a top dog may not be a great incentive.

 

[derek]

I proposed almost exactly the same thing a few months ago in the middle of some other thread.

I by the way do spend about 5k and event on my Gp2 car... lets see here Tires alone $1,000. Entry, Hotel, Race Gas, Food $1,500 for a local event. Typical replacement of parts after each event $1 to 2k. Cost of Capital 1k per event.

I need to go find that thread, lots of good ideas there...

Derek

 

[derek]

Here is the link to the old post and a few copies of what I said there...

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/c...cgi?az=read_count&om=2638&forum=DCForumID2#17

If the SCCA had balls them might try something like this.

Go to Speed Vision, the Air Force, Hotwheels and others they have at least some relationship with now and work on a joint rally program that would promote the drivers and provide a number of spetacular drive that look good on TV.

To do this they would get a builder to build about 6 to 10 identical RWD Turbo cars that would then be leased to the drivers/teams competing for the national championship. They would set the program up to last about 4-6 years at a minimum and be willing to add more cars after getting the program going.

As the cars are all idential the driver would be the variable and thus drivers would need to push hard all the time to win. RWD cars driven hard look good, very good on TV. Cost to get started as a driver would be low as it is a lease, cost to put the program together would be lowish as there is an income steam from the lease payments. Heck it might even be possible to include some of the cost of TV in the lease pmt's and all people in the class would get some TV time, to help them get sponsorship, might need more like 15 - 20 cars to make that work however...

As part of the deal the car builder might provide service and transport to all the events.

Might be possible in 4wd cars too, but to make 4wd cars look fast take a lot more power and thus money.

Running some quick numbers, a true arive and drive program like this should be possible for less than $5,000 per month for the year long program wtih out even concidering the residual vaule of the car at then end of it life. With economies of scale it might even be possible for a lot less than that.

I think the keys here are start with a cheap shell (Volvo240 but that looks dated, Neon SRT??(even though FWD)), build it safe strong and fun to watch, get economies by building several cars at the same time with common parts. Get more economies by all using one tire brand and everyone gets a type of tire at an event, a med-hard so it last a while. As the cars get shipped on one truck hey that cost less to, I think you see where this is going.

Lets face it, the reward in rallying is the driving, as long as a car has decent pull, good ballance, is competive and is safe I do not care what I drive. The selection of manufactures, tires, seats etc, that is all for the benifit of people selling me stuff not for my benifit so lets cut that part out and just go drive.

Derek
More...
>You can do that on your own now with the SRT4, for less than
>$60,000/yr

I ment $60,000 including the cost of running the events tires, gas transport, service and TV covrage, a shot at the national championship, SCCA's Promotional weight behind the teams etc.

Lease or Loan, I do not care the point was low start up cost & capital requirements.

Doug's car and program was on my mind when I wrote this, but so was press covrage and promotion, you know an effort to make it a win win win, the team can get sponsors as there is covrage, the sponsors can get eyeballs or low cost advertising, and the press can get an audiance as it is intresting, and drivers get to drive.

The $60k is a price point I think is doable but others can spend more time looking at that. I can afford 5k a month so that looks good from that stand point and I do not think I am supper rich, just an average 2 income no kids type of guy, for others that is likely not all that hard to raise though sponsorship as the whole program is predicated on an audiance ie they are selling advertising and 60K will not buy much news print so it is likely going to work out in the sponsors favor to spend 60k here rahter than in traditional media.

Derek

>The interesting thing is that the missing piece of the
>puzzle in BOTH Canada and the US is the promotion and media
>relations on behalf of ALL competitors by the marketing arm
>of the sanctioning body.

Yep, I would sure like to have Curtis out pounding the pavement right now for the 2005 season with the media. I would like to think he would go to SCCA's Magizine (Sports Car?) and say how many articals and photos can I have for 2005? What are our demographics for Sports Car? and so forth, then he would call Grass Roots motorsports and ask how many articals are they willing to wirte next year, how large what topics etc, he would also make some sujestions and ask what he can do to get a few more ariticals in there, he would also learn when the articals would come out and Grass Roots Demographics Distrabution ect. He would do this with every newspaper, magazine, radio station that he can in each market the SCCA Championship visits. He would then tackle the biggy, TV he would meet with Speed Vision, ESPN etc and learn what would make a better package for them, what are they looking for, he would tell them about the unique new formula I listed above of all equal cars lots of RWD HP and how that should be a good show, he will also talk about how the formala should be asseciable to the avrage viewer and propose having TV stages at the starts and ends of the rally where good shots could be recorded ect. If all goes well he would walk away with a agreement for some amount of coverage and the demographics ect of this covrage.

Then He would go back to Kansas and put all that information in a nice simple package that would say this is the media package, here are the demographics, reach, and value of the media for 2005, here are copys of letters of intent from the media outlets proving we are going to have this covrage etc.

Curtis then sends these out to all the intrested teams and they go out to the community at large and say Dear MR. VP of marketing at new wierless company or energy drink or what ever, spend $150,000 with my team and you will get this package worth $500,000 here is my bank info...

The team spends $60,000 with the SCCA for the car, logistics and service, leaving $90k for travel, reparis and other minor things the driver and co-driver paying them selves!

>... The problem being that so many people wany so many
>different things here, it might be hard to make it fly ...
>telling people that they *had* to run one of your cars if
>they wanted to be eligable for the championship seems kinda
>un-American to this Canuck (who seems to be in run on
>sentance mode today)

There are a lot of people in this sport who can not decide if if they are car builders or drivers. The thing is, most of the drivers are really builders but they do not think of them selves that way.

The drivers should not care what they are driving as long as they have a resonable chance to have fun and show thier skills. I am sure a few phone calls to Pat, Thumper, Tutule, Fuller, Shepeard, Sprongle, Lawler, ACP, ect would clear up who would be in and who would be out.

If Curtis can get the media package put together the rest would fall into place, I mean value is value, If he could garentee me $500k of coverage somewould would pay 150k for it.

Derek

Wow you are dedicated if you read this far!

 

[RichardM]

I usually have to tow 1000 miles to an event. And I'm old enough where I don't want to sleep in the truck so we stop at hotels on the way. Each event is a vacation. We've found some neat resorts around Bemidji and Salem.:+
Richard

 

[gplsek]

Pete. when was the last time you did a rally? Entry fees are almost double your budget.

-g

 

[Morgan]

>Damn! I'm pi$$ed if my total comes to around $500/$600 for
>EVERYTHING for a weekend! OK, I don't have a service crew,
>who needs one with a reliable Toyota! Like I say, I do it on
>a budget.

It costs that much to SPECTATE a rally and that is if it is within 6 hours driving distance!