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hey all
ok now im confused...some of you said to start off in FWD and some said 4WD. well i need an onest opinion. get a preped FWD or a preped 4WD? or a street FWD, 4WD? im going to be a mechanic (sorry i didnt say it in my last post) i start in augest. i was thinking og getting a stock FWD/4WD and as i move along in school do the mods. in class? and could you lead me in the right direction towards a rally school? who is a good VW rally parts dealer? thanks for your time.
mike
P.S. i live in rancho cucamonga, ca if theres anyone that rallies out here drop me an email i would like to talk to some people that are rallying heres my email: [email protected]
 

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Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa.)The next rally is Gorman in Aug. Treeline is HQ'd at W.Covina and is in Sep. Give Ron Wood a call in Huntington Beach. His # is 714 848 4336.He knows VW's like the back of his hand.
 

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Hey, if you didn't like the way the FWD handled, try learing with a Rear Wheel Drive! Though I think I'm getting better, I finished 5th out of 14 cars in my class, and missed 4th by 1/100th of a minute in some of the slipperiest conditions I've ever driven on. Virginia red clay is like that after it rains... Just think if I had had rally tires and a limited slip diff in my 31 year old Volvo!

But seriously... I'd say you would be better off with a low powered front wheel drive car. When you don't have a whole lot of power to deal with you learn how to use it well and not waste it. I built my first car 3 years ago as well, (a '69 Volvo 142S) But I own a fully equiped shop and make a living restoring cars. If you have access to all the tools and people to help, I don't see why you couldn't build it yourself. But I would suggest studying cars and cages before going ahead, and perhaps haveing someone build the cage who does it professionally. Unfortuneatly I crash tested my first cage... but I did find out that I do know how to build one.

But yes, starting off relatively stock and adding mods as you go along sounds like a very good plan to me. I found out that 105 horse power is plenty enough to get you in trouble.



Nick Polimeni
'71 Volvo 142E (daily driver/RallyCross)
'71 Volvo 145S G2/historic car, when I find time and money to actually build it, or failing that, someone elses money
Editor, Blue Mountain Region, SCCA
[email protected]
www.bmr-scca.org
 

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"Downhillerguy"?
as in ski racing?
This will get all the proponents of one thing or the other or the dogmatists out there all excited but it really doesn't matter what you start with, just the YOU start. The cars basic configuration is one element in the equation and is important, the cars modifed configuration is another matter and is also important, but YOU, and what YOU do with what the car presents you with for advantages or problems, is far more decisive.

POS stock POS FWD has 1 advantage in loose surface use when driven short of the limit of grip:lotsa weight over the drive wheels. That helps.

POS stock pos RWD has typically a weight distribution when loaded with 2 people about as crappy as you typical POS fwd. POS RWD with low power and standard gearing and open diff cannot really take advantage of the old dogma of rearward weight transfer on accelleration, the simplt don't have the poop, or if the do the grip.

Half the POS stock AWD cars have open diff back and front so that suck beeeeeg time, and just helps increase speed a bit before you run outta grip, if you are a skiier you've seen all the a******s in their
POS SUV going faster with their dumb ballooonie tires and then crash, didn't help them much.

So Piece of Sheeeeet standard road cars are , well pieces of sheeeeet.

Modified to approx the same level, that is to say, a real transmission with close ratios, a final drive appropriate, similar sized brakes and steering, and both with a real good LSD, well there ain't much difference between the effectiveness of the one vs the other.

I've done front drive in every rally I've done, but it was always with a real proper gearbox/final drive and /LSD. And folks have sometimes asked if I was sure my car was front drive. See since I have lots of grip I know if I attack a corner like way stoooopid fast and the tail swings out IT IS IMMEDIATELY SCRUBBING ITS SPEED so I can concentrate, to the level what i do is called concentrating, on just the front end.

But there are other considerations to think about.
How about serviceability? RWD with North-south motor in front OK

How about UP-ratability, if the trans is weak crap can you get a better one, can you afford the FIRST step up? FWD mucho carisimo.

What you gonna do for final drive ratio, keep a 3.62 ring and pinion and give a MASSIVE advantage to any fool who has gotten a 4.88 or 5.1?
Can you afford that?

Is there off the shelf real rally suspention stuff, or at least some information of something at a high level of competition so you know what real stuff is at least?


I say it's this sorta stuff that make the biggest dent in my skull in making a choice of car

PS The easiest class to dive right into and be competitive is Gp5, cause you can use unstressed turbo motors, and put all you resources into suspension and bodyshell/cage prep. Nudge Nudge.














John Vanlandingham
 

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i am in the same boat you are in that i want a rally car but dont know what to get, and i dont know how to drive. i am 20 i have been a tech for the last 3 years i can diag. and repair anything i want, and have done alot of hi performance street stuff but i guess that is a waste because a 600 hp rally car would be undrivable. i will tell you what im doing, i am looking for a dodge omni glh, they are factory turbo, very torquey at low revs, they would be a group5 car, there is a bunch of suspension and brake stuff available aftermarket from a company called LRE, i figure it is fast enough to leave the motor alone, buy a prefab cage and just have it welded in and strengthened to the point i would feel safe rolling the car at 50 mph, then do the suspension and brakes and save the motor for last. i will drive the car stock and see what sucks the most about it and fix it, then whatever sucks the most next fix that, till the car is good. i made the choice of the omni because it is superlight in stock form (2300 lbs) it is fast (15s in the 1/4 mile) there are a bunch of aftermarket parts for it, and there is 300000 omnis in the jyard at my town so if i need a part i can get it for liek 2 dollars. that is my beginner choice and why i made it, i dont know if it will help.but good luck
 

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'allo frenchie,
Good choice, there's not a lot that you could say sucks on the GHL, except the diff and driveshaft tri-bearings.

You probably want to have an intercooler, and I would add an oil cooler from a second gen RX7 and just gas and drive.

When it's time to dig into the motor, the stock cast Mahle pistons can go into the bin. Not so much for more power but for more reliability in forged units.

And this is a 'fer sure' gotta do: look real hard at the wimpy wierd suspension bushes, and chuck 'em. get some solid rubber bushes.

And stitch weld the hell out of the shell, they got less spot welds as the years went on.














John Vanlandingham
 

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Rookie, Vanlandingham has a lot of good advice, just read his post carefully about 4 times so you get it right, he is from another dimention and does not talk like the rest of us;)

My advice is low HP FWD for a couple years then move on from there once you have learned the sport and a bit more about driving. Probably best is to buy a used rally car but building can be fun, it just will take you much longer to get out there.

There are a number of us local to you, I live in Claremont, my navi and the guy I build with, Gary, lives in LaVerne, Gabe (Rally Sentra) is in Ontario, and there are probably another 6 within 20 minutes of you. Go to the RallyX this weekend and introduce yourself to everyone, you will find many locals.



Bradney A. Boli
Over Exposure Racing
Honda Accord #311
 

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Omni GLH?? Way to go! We love ours. The diff is welded (I love it!). You're right though...there's a million parts cars out there. Just make sure you know what can and can't be swapped into a glh. Oh...and what's the contact info for LRE????

~Dave and Stacy
SMS Rallysport
 

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>
>POS stock pos RWD has typically a weight distribution when
>loaded with 2 people about as crappy as you typical POS fwd.

Hey, my Starion has a 51/49 F/R weigth bias, with a lillte extra negative caster. Results will vary.....

>PS The easiest class to dive right into and be competitive
>is Gp5, cause you can use unstressed turbo motors, and put
>all you resources into suspension and bodyshell/cage prep.
>Nudge Nudge.

Great advice...unless you choose an Xr4Ti.........hee heee
 

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Hi Rook,

I'll just say once more, if you haven't driven competitvely, start with something low HP and light weight. The low HP will keep you out of trouble; rally driving is very long learning curve, and lots of HP tends to be a crutch in some ways, and prevents you from learning as much. And you can get in plenty of trouble with 100 hp. See Nick's post!

Lightweight will make the car more nimble and responsive, which is important when you are first driving, as the car and the situation will often be ahead of your thinking, experience, and reactions.

These 2 things point to 2WD, non turbo. If you think this is not enough, I had the priveledge to ride with Matthew Johnson at SnoDrift in hsi VW Golf with a stock motor with 200k miles on it. He worked onthe suspension a lot, and his driving even more. Result: a very fast, capable performance, beating a lot of turbo AWD's in crappy conditions.

Think about a Nissan SE-R; good 2.0L motor, stock with posi axle, solid, durable car.

As far as the build thing, if you want to do it, go for it. It will take you a while, but that may be OK if you are in school and low on $$. Just spend a lot of time at events looking at cars, read the rules over and over and understand them 100%, and ask questions to people who have "been there, done that", like here. Man, have we done that...crash, roll, smash, etc. ;)

Good luck,
Mark Bowers
 

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Get a stock RWD and weld the diff! :)

There's no reason to be fast as a beginner other than to be a bit faster than most beginners. Little mistakes slow down fast cars to a lesser extent than they do slow cars, which means little mistakes are less appearent to the driver, which means the driver learns less and more slowly, which means you will soon be going slower than the guys in the slow cars who started at the same time as you if you start out in a fast car. The moral of the story (run on sentence): get a car that is slow and forces you to drive.

Another thing: You want to get as much seat time as possible, so get a car that is tough and cheap to maintain so you can go to and finish more events.

Will MacDonald
1968 Volvo 144
 
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