Special Stage Forums banner

21 - 40 of 85 Posts

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
RE: Some of Doug's Old rally pix

>Doug:
>
>The album is empty.

Gerald:

Thanks. I had left the album settings at private instead of public. Should work now. I used your photo - looks good.

Doug Woods
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Eric that sounds great! I'd love to be able to see those old POR route books. The great American mountain rally holds much interest for me as well.

I would be more than happy to contribute old rally photos to your sight. I know zip about HTML so the offer to set it up for us digitally challenged would be great. Is there a specific size the photo's would need to be?

Eric Jones & Mark Hardymon said to say hello to you. I saw them both
on new years eve. Eric said he has been trying to track you down. He said he lost track of you in Piqua. If you would like to you can e-mail me your phone number so that I can give it to Eric so he can talk with you. My e-mail is in my profile.

Very nice photos that you've added to your site. The one from the Canadian winter rally really tells the story.

The one of Eric Jones at the 81 Sunriser was also at Cooper Hollow. That was a great place to spectate. Tawn is quite a good photographer.

Thanks again.

Chuck Ashton
 

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
>There are 10 more images up on the site, mostly from
>Canadian Winter. Doug is even in three of them.

Eric:

Keep the photos coming!

In the photo from the Rideau Lakes with John Buffum in his Escort, I am not with Walter. The co-driver was Stuart Gray from England (they won the rally). I was the Rallymaster and was long gone in the course opening car when this photo was taken!

Doug Woods
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
awesome_rogergibson

Dick Fitzgerald was always colorful. Believe it was on the 85 POR when all the rest of us Texas folks went home after the rally and Dick got to stay a while. The police found a pistol
in the Saab. Evidently the authorities in MI did not have the same rules about guns in 85 as Texas. None.

Texas now has a permit to carry.

awesome roger gibson
Terlingua, TX
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
I posted another dozen or so new pictures tonight. These are mostly from the 1975 Marathon 400. Drivers (and cars) I could identify include: Tom Tolles, Scott Harvey, John Buffum, Bob Hourihan, John Smiskol, Eric Jones, Guy Light and me (I'm pretty good at identifying me. Mostly!).

There are another half dozen shots that I don't know who they are. At least a couple of them should be identifiable by someone here.

Enjoy!
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
Eric,

I recognize the blue BMW 2002 on the first page as Bob Schneider and Bill Bauman of Toledo. Thought for a second the Z-car might be mine but mine never quite looked like that. I don't remember whose that might have been, unless possibly John Kelly (?) from Kentucky? You've gotta love the white walls though.

Kent Gardam
 
  • Like
Reactions: rwgraves

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
>Eric,
>
>I recognize the blue BMW 2002 on the first page as Bob
>Scneider and Bill Bauman of Toledo. Thought for a second
>the Z-car might be mine but mine never quite looked like
>that. I don't remember whose that might have been, unless
>possibly John Kelly (?) from Kentucky? You've gotta love
>the white walls though.
>


Kent,

Did you run Marathon? Do you remember? I have a bunch of negs and slides from there and these are in pretty good shape. If you think you were there, I might have a pix. Describe the car.

The progression of the negatives and slides has been interesting. I had forgotten how difficult rally photography was back in the '70s, and how much things have progressed.

Most events ran at night, often in miserable locations and with miserable weather. Daylight and spectator stages were rare. And even then, they weren't real rallying (I'm thinking here of the Belle Island stage in Detroit and the Alma dump.)

The only real film option was Tri-X (Ilford was not a big presence in the U.S. at this point) and you could only push Tri-X to 800 or maybe 1600 without having it completely fall apart. I don't remember ever pushing Tri-X past 800 because the results were so bad.

For color slides -- needed, I always wanted to sell the magazine cover which is where the real money was in freelance writing -- the situation was worse. The fastest slide film was slow, and the exposure latitude was narrow. It wasn't unusual to shoot a whole roll of slide film and only have one or two decent shots. Slide film was also expensive to buy and expensive to have processed.

Some time around 1975, I invested in two big Spiratone flashes. These could practically light up a football field. The flashes weren't expensive (under $50, but that was still a lot in 1975) but the batteries were outrageous. They were 67.5 volts apiece, and the battery pack took four of them and could power two flashes at once. The batteries also cost about $10 each and a set of four might last one or two events. They were not recharageable.

The downside of those flashes is that a photographer had to be really careful where you were standing in relationship to the driver. Fire one of those suckers off while the driver was looking right at it, and the driver was blind for a week. This, of course, isn't really too good if the car happened to be going about 70 mph in the middle of a twisty forest road.

One of the funniest things I ever witnessed was when Mike Creech and I were running service for Rich and Linda Merritt in a rally out of Huntsville, Ala. I don't remember the name of the event. Joe Maugans was there and working service too, probably for Eric Jones.

Long about 3 a.m. Joe was frustrated that the service schedule wasn't allowing for much spectating, and he wasn't getting any good shots.

So he made up his mind that he was going to start taking pictures from across the road of cars as they came into the service area.

For those reading this who weren't around the in '70s, most of the rallies didn't have service parks the way you do today. Service crews were constantly on the move, and service areas were usually a wide spot along side the road, often a state highway.

Anyway, for Joe the other side of the road quickly became the centerline, and this was working OK. He'd snap a picture of the car coming down the highway and jump out of the way.

Mike and I were watching this from the back of our service vehicle a couple of vehicles down the service area and I remember we had a bet as to how soon something was going to happen.

Sure enough, about four or five cars after coming up with this scheme Joe happened to snap a picture of something that wasn't a rally car, but rather a sheriff's deputy who immediately put on the flashing lights. I think Joe ran halfway to Texas before slowing down. The deputy was pretty cool, but allowed as how standing in the middle of the road taking pictures probably was not a good idea.

Anyway, the earlier '70s stuff has thin, in some cases almost unprintable, negatives. The film scanner I'm using won't pick up detail in some of the negs, although you can see it with a loupe. The later stuff, ala Marathon 400, has better exposure, but often isn't taken from quite as good of an angle.

The Hourihan/Smiskol shots from Marathon illustrates this. The better place to have been would have been on the right side of the car. But the driver would have been looking right into the flash, so we didn't do that. If you look at the shot, you'll see that we're getting a ton of light all the way across a fairly wide stretch of road.

Today, of course, film speeds are better. Grain structure is better, and Photoshop can solve a lot of problems.

That's a lot of babbling to say that if you think you were at Marathon, describe the car and I'll see if I can find you.
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
Okay, for a convoluted question here's a convoluted answer. Did I run Marathon 400 in 1975? Well, probably. I did run the Marathon 400 at least once. Which year(s)? I'm no longer positive. (I also remember running the Sunoco 400 out of Traverse City). Which car? I'm no longer positive. We progressed (?) somewhere in that time frame from our 510 (ex-Smiskol car) to our 240Z. Can't remember exactly when that occurred though. The 510 ended up the same green as Eric's cars (no black hood though). The Z was blue with red eyebrows over the wheel arches and then it was carnival orange with a black hood (Much like the unidentified Z in your pics but I don't remember having an antenna at the top of the rear hatch like the one pictured). I'm foggy on when the color change took place too. How's that for a rock solid old fart memory?

On the issues of flashes in driver's eyes: My buddy and I were servicing once for Smiskol's 510 at Canadian Winter ('73 I think) and were using my 510. We were be-bopping down the road from one service point to another on what turned out to be a transit on the rally route. The transits were only marginally slower than the stages. We crested a yump when there was a sudden brilliant flash from dead ahead. Seems someone was out taking pics of rally cars on that road and caught a service crew by mistake. Guess you can't blame them since it was a rally prepped 510 but it sure shocked the hell out of me when I wasn't expecting it.

Kent Gardam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
>Eric,
>
>I recognize the blue BMW 2002 on the first page as Bob
>Scneider and Bill Bauman of Toledo. Thought for a second
>the Z-car might be mine but mine never quite looked like
>that. I don't remember whose that might have been, unless
>possibly John Kelly (?) from Kentucky? You've gotta love
>the white walls though.
>
>Kent Gardam

Those names from the Beemer ring a bell. I do believe I have the shortwave radio out of that car...I remember oohing and aahing over it in the Chillicothe hills in the late 70's...made 'em promise that if they ever ditched the car, they'd save the radio for me. They did...and it still works!

Charlie KA8OQF
 

·
straight at T
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
>Doug, just a question...Where exactly did the rally run out
>to? I think it started in Smith falls, ya? so where did it
>go?

The '74 Rideau Lakes (the World Championship round) went over as far as Bancroft (running stages that are now staples in the Tall Pines) and came back via Desert Lake (south of Sharbot Lake and spitting distance from my parent's cottage).

Adrian
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
>Eric,
>
>You've gotta love
>the white walls though.
>
>Kent Gardam

Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will likely recall that running with the whitewallls out was a typical consequence of leaving your wheels at the local tire store to have them mounted. Even with a specific request to have the black walls out the tires tended to come home the other way and, of course, it was always too late to rectify the problem before rally time.

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

·
Old Fart
Joined
·
560 Posts
>>Eric,
>>
>>You've gotta love
>>the white walls though.
>>
>>Kent Gardam
>
>Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will
>likely recall that running with the whitewallls out was a
>typical consequence of leaving your wheels at the local tire
>store to have them mounted. Even with a specific request to
>have the black walls out the tires tended to come home the
>other way and, of course, it was always too late to rectify
>the problem before rally time.
>
>Halley ...
>http://www.realautosport.com
I beleave the Red 240Z was Daryl Holder out of Huntsville, Alabama. They ran a MGB about 1972 in the POR and other events and then moved up to the Z. They deliberately had the Coopers mounted that way. The Z's last rally was on one of the Happiness is Sunrise rallies (maybe 75 or 76) They rolled the car badly somewhere north of Renova. They didn't have a service crew and I volunteered to drive them out to try to retrieve the car. When I left them they were getting a tow truck to get it out of the woods and arranging to fly home.


Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
>I beleave the Red 240Z was Daryl Holder out of Huntsville,
>Alabama. They ran a MGB about 1972 in the POR and other
>events and then moved up to the Z. They deliberately had
>the Coopers mounted that way.
<snip>
>Paul Jaeger
>PRIMO Stage Crews
>For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

I was always nervous any time I took to a stage with white walls showing since that always increased your chances of a rollover!!!

:+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
>
>Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will



At one point, someone (I don't remember who, but Eric Jones, maybe, it sounds like something he might do) carefully cut apart the Cooper tire decals and was running Copper Tires.

And someone (Jones again maybe?) at one point was running Pooper Tires.

Bob Edds was not amused.

I don't know if I have this on film, but I'll keep an eye out for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
That sounds like Eric Jones all right. He also took some Red Roof Stickers & instead of saying Sleep Cheap they said Leap Sheep.:)

Chuck Ashton
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
RE: Old habits ...

When I returned to rallysport with the Stage Fright Rallye Team RallyeTruck I saw no reason to spend huge bucks on purpose-built rally tires when I had no idea how I might stack up after a dozen years of rally inactivity, so I visited Danny's Auto & Tire in Mannford, Oklahoma and went with what I knew - Coopers! They weren't Weathermasters and they weren't bias plies, but they turned out to be competent, reasonably-priced tires that carried a road hazard guarantee and gave me precious little trouble! I'm still running Coopers on the SORT ...

Mad Mike on Coopers in 1978:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Vega/sunr78-1.jpg

Mad Mike on Coopers in 1998 (sort of):

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/pbn99/32799-A2.jpg

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 
21 - 40 of 85 Posts
Top