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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hope that someone can explain the rationale behind the start order I see online for Ojibwe!?

Did the entire field get included in the seeded draw!?

The start order would seem to create situations requiring passing or other dangers on the stage.

I'm sure we'll see just a little discussion about the order when the event is over....

John
 

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1973 WRC POR
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>I hope that someone can explain the rationale behind the
>start order I see online for Ojibwe!?

John:

It looks like they went back to the old start order method of putting everyone in the draw with a SF of 0.95 or greater.

After the success of the new median SF system and the limited start order draw at MFR, I think the new system should have been adopted immediately for the remainder of the season.

However, it was stated that it was an experiment for MFR only.

Doug Woods
 

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"Go fast then bah bah bah"
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Doug-

Looks like you are right in how they did the start order. But this was an OBVIOUS failure of the stewards not stepping in and adjusting the order appropriately.

-Tim
Wazoo Racing
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This is the kind of situation where common sense on the part of the steward's should prevail.

Having a system in place doesn't preclude some sort of management by those on the ground. It's a shame really and unfortunate to see at an RA event(or any event for that matter).

Knowing some of the competitors affected most, I'm sure that they expressed their displeasure with the steward's prior to the start. Apparently to no avail.

All of this is conjecture on my part though, so my flame suit is on and zipped up.

John
 

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Sucker for good roads
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Absolutely rediculous. Where's the logic? Yes, they went back to the old method ... and look what happens. We submitted a inquiry to move us up in position from 9th on the road to something more appropriate and safe (not to mention this could seriously hinder our championship fight)... but it was denied, which didn't surprise me at all. What also didn't surprise me too much was that on SS2 (13 miles) we caught the car ahead of us, as did Stig. In any case, I'm not so convinced that the Stewards were really open to anything we had to say, but that's a whole other story. Luckily for them there weren't any accidents as a result of this start order.

That's all I have to say on that, and if someone wants to reply saying that it happens to many teams and I'm just complaining blah blah blah, let's get one thing straight ... I AM complaining!

- Nathalie
 

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Feeling like an "old timer."
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>We submitted a inquiry to move us up in position from 9th on the
>road to something more appropriate and safe... but it was denied,
>
>- Nathalie

Did they give a reason why it was denied?

Matt Kennedy
www.RockyRoadRacing.com
 

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>Absolutely rediculous. Where's the logic?

In recent years people have forgotten the difference between rally and forest sprint racing.

>Luckily for them there weren't any accidents as a
>result of this start order.

Short of pushing someone off stage, or following too close through dust there should be no reason for an accident.

After 4 stages Stig and Pat were reseeded to the front, and can now go at it for the rest of the rally.
 

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Start Flat 30k Finish
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Imagine a blind corner towards the end of a stage... then imagine a car has a 'problem' in that corner and blocks or partially blocks the stage. Then imagine that car has been possibly mismatched speed-wise to the car behind in the start order, and is maybe thirty or forty seconds off the pace of the car behind. Imagine the car is being driven at 110%...

Is 20 seconds (or less) enough time to get out of your car and properly warn that car behind you?

It seems like too big of a risk to take, just for the sake of "mixing it up"... I dont think Rally in North America can afford to unneccesarily increase the potential for a serious incident...
 

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If that is the concern, then would it not make sense to pick **1** type of seeding/start order/speed factor/etc for an entire season.... AND STICK TO IT?

Not to mention that notes give the team a false sense of security. Notes DO NOT include fallen trees, baby carriages on stage, logs placed on stage by disgruntled locals, etc, etc, etc.

Because the notes say the road is clear means .... NOTHING!!!!

When rally has corner workers at every corner, guard rails, and emergency crews within 30 seconds, rally will be rally... not road racing. One needs to always assume there is a person crossing the road over every crest and around every corner. If they don't make that assumption eventually someone is going to die.
 

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Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
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The one constant I was given when whining about Speed Factors was that the Stewards would fix it.
This was a BIG goof up, from the lateness of the posting of the start order to the impementation.
TV and PR won't fix a big screw-up like that.
I'm mad sitting at home, I can only imagine how hot I'd be in a helmet.
WTF??!!??
signed,
Glad not to have paid an entry to find this out

P.S.
Get over yourselves, combine the sanctioning bodies for the good of the sport, this crap sucks! 24 cars. bah!
 

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Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
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RE: from Live Update...

There have been several Request for Stewards' Review and Penalty assessments, they are as follows

Request for Stewards' Reviews

Submitted by: Nathalie Richard. Description: Car 1 is currently starting 9th on the road (according to Start List 8/26 1:05 PM) behind many slower teams. To keep the start list as is, it would be the safest decision for all parties involved. We caught the driver in position 8 many times before and Special Stage 2 is 13 miles long. Rule reference: 1.7.E.3.C and 1.7.E.5. Action requested: Interest of our safety and the safety of the teams ahead of us, we request that the steards use their discretionary power and move us to the most appropriate position, given that we have a speed factor of 100 and have proven to be faster than at least 7 of the teams ahead of us. Failing this request, please allocate two minute windows as per rule 1.7.E.5. Reply (by stewards): The stewards considered this immediately after the (seeded) draw. It was felt that this was not a safety issue. There will be a reseed after Special Stage 4.

Submitted by: Nathalie Richard. Action Requesed: Drivers wish to walk Special Stage 8 (short course - Bemidji Speedway. Reply (by Stewards): Drivers may walk the short couse (Special Stage 8)_ from 12 to 1 PM. Hand written instructions on Special Stage 8 are allowed...update at 12:16 PM: The course is not yet prepared. Walking cannot occur.


If start order isn't in the interest of safety what is it for Dan?
rz
 

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RE: from Live Update...

Randy, Randy, Randy..... relax.

I can understand Nathalie being upset, but why you?

Stig was started 5th. Did he not protest? Why?

It will all come out in the wash soon enough. Calm down :)
 

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RE: start order

Jens (and all),
I'm upset because of the way RA has treated Speed Factors and promised:
1) a better way to compute them
2) that they will adjust the order as necessary
then, run straight over the cliff.
There are three major groups running rallys in NA.
Those who support this fractionalization (?) say it is good.
I say; get together, get more people to work on the problems and tasks and make the jobs easier and the competitions better.
Running events that cost over $1000 to enter with small crews that don't have time to do the most basic tasks needed to run a PROFESSIONAL event and series is not in the spirit of rally. Competitors need to be on a strict timetable or they are penalized but routinely, rallys run behind in time and some tasks needed to run the rally are given priority and others given less because there isn't time to accomplish them.
Scheduling/producing a start order minutes before the rally is not right. Don't do it again.
rz
 

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RE: start order

(As I've said before) I completely agree with Randy. My only additional comment is that this is the first year for RA and we may need to be patient till next season. Let's see what happens till next year with the sanctioning bodies.
 

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>What also didn't
>surprise me too much was that on SS2 (13 miles) we caught the
>car ahead of us, as did Stig.

To be fair, the car in front of Stig (us) had a broken driveshaft. And judging from the result, I don't think his performance was impacted. We were watching our mirrors and prepared to pull over if needed.

That said, I have it on good authority that median Speedfactors will be a permanent solution beginning at Cog. Which still does not absolve the stewards from making the appropriate decision on event. Speedfactors are just a tool in setting the start order, not gospel.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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>Speedfactors are just a tool
>in setting the start order, not gospel.
>
>- Christian

Amen.

Halley (a steward who has a healthy-but-not-irrational-disdain for speed factors thanks to intimate knowledge of the darker side of their use)
BBBBB (Bring Back Big Bend Bash)
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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>>Speedfactors are just a tool
>>in setting the start order, not gospel.
>>
>>- Christian
>
>Amen.
>
>Halley (a steward who has a healthy-but-not-irrational-disdain
>for speed factors thanks to intimate knowledge of the darker
>side of their use)
>BBBBB (Bring Back Big Bend Bash)
>http://www.realautosport.com


Data is great. Using it is even better. How the heck didn't they put Pat higher on the road?

I used to whine about my start pos all the time and I usually got the response, " I just can't see it." It's good to see that they weren't just treating me special.

This is scary. Anyone ever run a stage this weekend that said stuff like R6 over 3 crests over 300? I did. Pat and Stig are in a championship fight, yikes get EVERYONE else out of their way. Yes, I said everyone, especially those who are entering themselves to qualify for regional championship points. Let the pros be pros.
 
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