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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have a follow up meeting of the Ojibwe rally committee coming up, and I have a few questions I'd like to ask about the route this year, so we can make next year's route even better. I'd be interested in hearing both from competitors and spectators who were there.

SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...

SS 3. That long 30 mph quiet zone was just to get you up to that side of the forest so we could run two stages concurrently on the east side of 64. Was it as painful as I thought, or was it worth it to get in a stage we couldn't run otherwise?

SS 7. We didn't run the Steamboat/Parkway crossroad as a jump this year. Did anyone really miss it?

SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?

SS 10. We put the 20-miler after two reseeds. I assume that's where you like it the best.

SS 14. The first 1.3 miles was really rough, but the alternative is going 120 mph down Anchor Mattson. Besides, this way gave us a great spectator spot, where the spectators can get closer than at any other spot we have (because of the low speeds). The marshals their reported that there must be something wrong with the stage notes, because they mistook your huge pendulum turns for wanting to go the wrong way! Is it worth enduring that first 1.3 miles for safety and a great spectator spot?

Roadside Service. We could have eliminated both Friday roadside services had we realized that the 90-mile limit was now in effect (I thought it was scheduled for 2006). We hate the roadside service, because of their inherent problems, so we'll eliminate them for 2006.

For Saturday, though, we still need one because of the great distances travelled. We've got two choices: Roadside service followed by lots of stages into the main service, and fewer stages home. Or, fewer stages to the main service, followed by lots of stages to the roadside service, then home. I'm leaning toward the former because it makes the worker movement better.

Thanks for your input.

Mark
Ojibwe Forests Rallymaster
 

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Hello mark My name is mike merbach P class #543 I was at your event with a large crew and worker spectator group.

I competed in your event starting in the back and finished in the middle.

SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...

I run a open diff and these uphills are awesome leave them.
They are uphill for every body.
Only the dumb people struggle with these and i saw plenty of them struggle.

SS 3. That long 30 mph quiet zone was just to get you up to that side of the forest so we could run two stages concurrently on the east side of 64. Was it as painful as I thought, or was it worth it to get in a stage we couldn't run otherwise?

I am in a zone when i am competeing, if jeff says 30 mph I go 28-32 just to annoy him. I really don't pay attention to the lay of the land muchless where i am. I just accept that there is a reason for the speed zone and follow suit.

SS 7. We didn't run the Steamboat/Parkway crossroad as a jump this year. Did anyone really miss it?

The what?

no?

SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?

I loved it, but....
When we are hanging out for the expose' maybe start the top 10 (the big guys)bring them in, run the seed 8 group bring them in, run the middle of the pack. ..... regroup...... then run it from the top down.
run it twice? so we can see each other make it a show. maybe invert the start order?

Oh yah, if you are going to threaten us with the don't cut the course or you will get the slowest time thing enforce it. 6 of the first 15 cars cut the back cone.

SS 10. We put the 20-miler after two reseeds. I assume that's where you like it the best.

do the same for the 13 miler. fri we were catching people in the previous 6 miler.

SS 14. The first 1.3 miles was really rough, but the alternative is going 120 mph down Anchor Mattson. Besides, this way gave us a great spectator spot, where the spectators can get closer than at any other spot we have (because of the low speeds). The marshals their reported that there must be something wrong with the stage notes, because they mistook your huge pendulum turns for wanting to go the wrong way! Is it worth enduring that first 1.3 miles for safety and a great spectator spot?

Roadside Service. We could have eliminated both Friday roadside services had we realized that the 90-mile limit was now in effect (I thought it was scheduled for 2006). We hate the roadside service, because of their inherent problems, so we'll eliminate them for 2006.

For Saturday, though, we still need one because of the great distances travelled. We've got two choices: Roadside service followed by lots of stages into the main service, and fewer stages home. Or, fewer stages to the main service, followed by lots of stages to the roadside service, then home. I'm leaning toward the former because it makes the worker movement better.

Thanks for your input.

Mark
Ojibwe Forests Rallymaster


Mark Larson
 

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>SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and
>I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will
>like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...

It's fine. Remove or retain as per your preference.

>SS 3. That long 30 mph quiet zone was just to get you up to
>that side of the forest so we could run two stages
>concurrently on the east side of 64. Was it as painful as I
>thought, or was it worth it to get in a stage we couldn't run
>otherwise?

So long as the transits are reasonably generous, and they were, I have no problem with a long 30mph quiet zone. Travis and I had to jack the car, and remove a driveshaft on the start of that transit, and we still had plenty of time (and Mike Hurst tailing us the whole way). It's definitely worth it to run an additional stage.

>SS 7. We didn't run the Steamboat/Parkway crossroad as a jump
>this year. Did anyone really miss it?

No.

>SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?

Good, I think. If possible, I might recommend routing cars down the highway, up 197N to Carr Lake Rd East to CR-407N, on the way there. It avoids lots of lights. Do you think there would be more local interest if we ran a SS there on Friday night and Saturday night?

>SS 14. The first 1.3 miles was really rough, but the
>alternative is going 120 mph down Anchor Mattson. Besides,
>this way gave us a great spectator spot, where the spectators
>can get closer than at any other spot we have (because of the
>low speeds).

First 1.3 miles was great -- proper rallying! Going 120mph for any distance is certainly a worse alternative. I enjoyed the stage a good deal.

Thanks for asking!!!

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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>
>SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?
>
>I loved it, but....
>When we are hanging out for the expose' maybe start the top 10
>(the big guys)bring them in, run the seed 8 group bring them
>in, run the middle of the pack. ..... regroup...... then run
>it from the top down.
>run it twice? so we can see each other make it a show. maybe
>invert the start order?
>
>Oh yah, if you are going to threaten us with the don't cut the
>course or you will get the slowest time thing enforce it. 6 of
>the first 15 cars cut the back cone.
>

Hmmm.. That's the first I've heard of it. Though I'm not sure which cone/tire you are talking about.

Not sure about running it twice in various orders, it's kinda like herding cats with you drivers }(

Thanks for the input!
JBLewis
 

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Hello mark My name is mike merbach P class #543 I was at your event with a large crew and worker spectator group.

I competed in your event starting in the back and finished in the middle.

SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...

I run a open diff and these uphills are awesome leave them.
They are uphill for every body.
Only the dumb people struggle with these and i saw plenty of them struggle.

SS 3. That long 30 mph quiet zone was just to get you up to that side of the forest so we could run two stages concurrently on the east side of 64. Was it as painful as I thought, or was it worth it to get in a stage we couldn't run otherwise?

I am in a zone when i am competeing, if jeff says 30 mph I go 28-32 just to annoy him. I really don't pay attention to the lay of the land muchless where i am. I just accept that there is a reason for the speed zone and follow suit.

SS 7. We didn't run the Steamboat/Parkway crossroad as a jump this year. Did anyone really miss it?

The what?

no?

SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?

I loved it, but....
When we are hanging out for the expose' maybe start the top 10 (the big guys)bring them in, run the seed 8 group bring them in, run the middle of the pack. ..... regroup...... then run it from the top down.
run it twice? so we can see each other make it a show. maybe invert the start order?

Oh yah, if you are going to threaten us with the don't cut the course or you will get the slowest time thing enforce it. 6 of the first 15 cars cut the back cone.

SS 10. We put the 20-miler after two reseeds. I assume that's where you like it the best.

do the same for the 13 miler. fri we were catching people in the previous 6 miler.

SS 14. The first 1.3 miles was really rough, but the alternative is going 120 mph down Anchor Mattson. Besides, this way gave us a great spectator spot, where the spectators can get closer than at any other spot we have (because of the low speeds). The marshals their reported that there must be something wrong with the stage notes, because they mistook your huge pendulum turns for wanting to go the wrong way! Is it worth enduring that first 1.3 miles for safety and a great spectator spot?

Rally is supposed to involve the co-driver.


Roadside Service. We could have eliminated both Friday roadside services had we realized that the 90-mile limit was now in effect (I thought it was scheduled for 2006). We hate the roadside service, because of their inherent problems, so we'll eliminate them for 2006.

For Saturday, though, we still need one because of the great distances travelled. We've got two choices: Roadside service followed by lots of stages into the main service, and fewer stages home. Or, fewer stages to the main service, followed by lots of stages to the roadside service, then home. I'm leaning toward the former because it makes the worker movement better.

I would love to see Crew only spectating spots (like the Sno-drift)
Roadside services might be the tool to enable our crews to see some rally or maybe marshall a low volumne spot, instead of playing catch with the dog waiting.
 

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Remember in the drivers meeting. don't cut the first cone. go way out in the grass around the tire then into the track jump. "please avoid the mud puddle".

We considered running a On-purpose 10 minute stage time to award the course cutters some time. Our speed factor may have improved then. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
>Oh yah, if you are going to threaten us with the don't cut the
>course or you will get the slowest time thing enforce it. 6 of
>the first 15 cars cut the back cone.

This is the first I've heard of that. It's possible that the spotter didn't recognize that or couldn't see it from their vantage point.

Next year I'll make sure that it's covered better.

>do the same for the 13 miler. fri we were catching people in
>the previous 6 miler.

Of the 9 rallies we've run since I've been rallymaster, this is the first time we've put a one of the longer stages before the reseed, for that very reason (except for Shooting Star 2004, where we had no choice). However, because of other considerations, it was the best choice. I would and will always avoid that as much as practical.

In the drivers meeting we talked about that, because I knew it was a potential problem. That's why I suggested if you catch someone on stage 1, swap places before stage 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
>I would love to see Crew only spectating spots (like the
>Sno-drift)
>Roadside services might be the tool to enable our crews to see
>some rally or maybe marshall a low volumne spot, instead of
>playing catch with the dog waiting.

I understand the point of the rules not allowing service crews off the service route. That's why we suggested they could spectate at intersection 89 on Friday. It's the only one that doesn't require them trying to turn around on a narrow road. Next year, maybe we can arrange for that one twice.

There's also a spot where we could do a similar thing on Saturday. We'll keep that option open for next year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
>
>>SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and
>>I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will
>>like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...
>
>It's fine. Remove or retain as per your preference.

I thought the response would be overwhelmingly negative, based on the feedback I got after doing it in 2003.

>Good, I think. If possible, I might recommend routing cars
>down the highway, up 197N to Carr Lake Rd East to CR-407N, on
>the way there. It avoids lots of lights. Do you think there
>would be more local interest if we ran a SS there on Friday
>night and Saturday night?

The reason for going through town was to make you be seen by the community. We'll discuss whether that's really worth it. Maybe one day, but not both.

Friday wasn't very good for the technical college. When we got there, the parc expose was full of student cars! We're thinking about swapping the school and Speedway for Friday and Saturday. Using the speedway both days is also an option.

By the way, the reason for the parc expose at the school is to promote the school. They're very gracious to offer us their great facility for tech at no charge. We're just trying to return the favor and promote the relationship between us.
 

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-It would've helped to let us walk the speedway stage. I had no idea we werent supposed to hit the puddle. I saw NO cone out there we were supposed to go around, per Mike M's comment above.

-I prefer a rough stage over a 120mph one

-30mph quiet zone was fine

-uphill start? didnt notice in our car (our G2 car I would've
probably)

-Our PGT car didnt need the roadside services at all, but if you remove them completely, someone will need them. I say leave em in.

Overall, well run & laid out!

JC
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www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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>>Oh yah, if you are going to threaten us with the don't cut
>the
>>course or you will get the slowest time thing enforce it. 6
>of
>>the first 15 cars cut the back cone.


We cut it, I'm sure.

If we are doing some kind of RallyX type affair, I'd prefer to have pointer cones.

When I see tires sitting on the ground, they don't mean anything to me other than "don't hit that tire".

I realize it makes me sound bad, but the entrance was very confusing to me.

I've had a lot of trouble in the past with missing gates out of my field of view during RallyX and Autocrosses, as well.

I ran into the same problem with the tight speccie corner both at Ojibwe, and a similar corner at STPR.

I drive what I see, and if point B isn't in view when I leave Point A, I'm off to Point C

:)
 

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>SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and
>I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will
>like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...

Didn't bother us in a fwd car with a LSD. Really, the saturn didn't like any starts (or stops and turns for that matter)

>
>SS 3. That long 30 mph quiet zone was just to get you up to
>that side of the forest so we could run two stages
>concurrently on the east side of 64. Was it as painful as I
>thought, or was it worth it to get in a stage we couldn't run
>otherwise?

Didn't even notice. I just do what Kim says.

>
>SS 7. We didn't run the Steamboat/Parkway crossroad as a jump
>this year. Did anyone really miss it?

Yes! You don't have anough jumps in the rally as it is, and this one was always a good one. Plus, it's a good spectator spot. Just don't do it at night. That was probably the scariest rally moment I've had that didn't involve an off (jumping into complete dark nothingness and knowing the road turns).

>
>SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?

Fine, light years better than the ranch. But for the amount of people that showed up it was kind of a wasted effort. Do some more promotion or don't do it all.

>
>SS 10. We put the 20-miler after two reseeds. I assume
>that's where you like it the best.

Perfect!

>
>SS 14. The first 1.3 miles was really rough, but the
>alternative is going 120 mph down Anchor Mattson. Besides,
>this way gave us a great spectator spot, where the spectators
>can get closer than at any other spot we have (because of the
>low speeds). The marshals their reported that there must be
>something wrong with the stage notes, because they mistook
>your huge pendulum turns for wanting to go the wrong way! Is
>it worth enduring that first 1.3 miles for safety and a great
>spectator spot?
>

Didn't make it, damn #$Q^#$ fuel pump. I was told by multiple competitors that the note was incorrect at the spectator turn.

>Roadside Service. We could have eliminated both Friday
>roadside services had we realized that the 90-mile limit was
>now in effect (I thought it was scheduled for 2006). We hate
>the roadside service, because of their inherent problems, so
>we'll eliminate them for 2006.
>
Roadside service might be a PIA for the crew, but it's better than sitting around an empty service park all day.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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Mark,
You and I have discussed this, but I thought I'd relate my thoughts on the evolution of the "Crossroads".

Back in the day, going thru the intersection of Steamboat and Parkway from west to east was a nice jump. Time has changed this piece of road so that now only the very fastest cars catch any air at all and even them only a very little.

I believe this is a great dissapointment to spectators who come to this spot thinking they'll see big air and then see almost none. They think the cars are slow now vs. a few years ago.

I think it is most exciting, now, going west on Steamboat and then South on Parkway.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 

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I have another comment/question Mark-

What is the big deal about Chad's Jump? Talk about no big deal... After all the hype about "you NEED to lift", "only crazy people destroy their cars there", etc...

I was rather disappointed to have backed off & lost time there (not that it mattered, my times sucked all weekend). But there really wasnt even hardly a crest, let alone a jump. Werent the spectators upset after the hype in the speccie guide?

I cant imagine the rain could've washed it out all on it's own. What's the deal with that?

JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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>SS 2. The nasty uphill start. I've used it twice now, and
>I've probably gotten it out of my system. The P cars will
>like that. Unless, of course, you guys really like it...

Was fine this year. Only is a PITA when it rains really bad and gets super-sloppy.

>
>SS 3. That long 30 mph quiet zone was just to get you up to
>that side of the forest so we could run two stages
>concurrently on the east side of 64. Was it as painful as I
>thought, or was it worth it to get in a stage we couldn't run
>otherwise?

Didn't even notice. Stacy just says go X speed.

>
>SS 7. We didn't run the Steamboat/Parkway crossroad as a jump
>this year. Did anyone really miss it?

I like the crossroads, mainly because I've never been able to catch air off it and it is my goal to someday launch the Omni into orbit off the crossroads.

>
>SS 8. How was the Bemidji Speedway as a venue?

Excellent!!!!! Loved this stage!!!! I want to do it again next year.

>
>SS 10. We put the 20-miler after two reseeds. I assume
>that's where you like it the best.

Worked good for us until the gearbox shredded.

>
>SS 14. The first 1.3 miles was really rough, but the
>alternative is going 120 mph down Anchor Mattson. Besides,
>this way gave us a great spectator spot, where the spectators
>can get closer than at any other spot we have (because of the
>low speeds). The marshals their reported that there must be
>something wrong with the stage notes, because they mistook
>your huge pendulum turns for wanting to go the wrong way! Is
>it worth enduring that first 1.3 miles for safety and a great
>spectator spot?
>

Didn't make it, damn #$Q^#$ gearbox.

>Roadside Service. We could have eliminated both Friday
>roadside services had we realized that the 90-mile limit was
>now in effect (I thought it was scheduled for 2006). We hate
>the roadside service, because of their inherent problems, so
>we'll eliminate them for 2006.
>

My crew prefers to hang around service. Less driving means less fuel and less chance they get lost.

-Dave & Stacy
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
>-It would've helped to let us walk the speedway stage. I had
>no idea we werent supposed to hit the puddle. I saw NO cone
>out there we were supposed to go around, per Mike M's comment
>above.

John:

The course was being set up and watered until the end of the drivers meeting. There was no way to let you walk it. That's why we let you watch the 0 cars.

There was also no cone. It was a giant tractor tire. The tulip showed it, the comment said "Hard right around tire", and I told you in the drivers meeting that it was way out on the grass.

I'll take responsiblilty for that not being clear enough, and make it better next year.
 

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Us darned drivers. I swear, I'd miss a Mack truck if you parked it there & told me to drive around it. :p

JC
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www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
>What is the big deal about Chad's Jump? Talk about no big
>deal... After all the hype about "you NEED to lift", "only
>crazy people destroy their cars there", etc...

There was no indication in the route book that you need to lift there. All it says is "Chad's Yump! Spectators" (single caution)"

>I was rather disappointed to have backed off & lost time there
>(not that it mattered, my times sucked all weekend). But there
>really wasnt even hardly a crest, let alone a jump. Werent the
>spectators upset after the hype in the speccie guide?

There's hardly a crest there. It's more of a drop. But you can definitely catch air there.

I have to back off in my Jeep. Perhaps I'm coming in there with more speed than others, since I know the road, but I doubt it.

The spectators were probably disappointed that the brush has grown up so much you can't see the jump very well. We'll have to fix that for next year, too.

>I cant imagine the rain could've washed it out all on it's
>own. What's the deal with that?

I had to shortcut the course this year, so I didn't see it. I can't imagine the rain made it go away:

http://www.speed-pics.com/MspOjibwe05_files/image002.jpg

Nope, it didn't!
 

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>There was also no cone. It was a giant tractor tire. The
>tulip showed it, the comment said "Hard right around tire",
>and I told you in the drivers meeting that it was way out on
>the grass.
>
>I'll take responsiblilty for that not being clear enough, and
>make it better next year.


It's not that you weren't clear enough, its that when presented with visual information, sometimes we just drive what we see.

There was, I thought, another tire nearer to the entry point of the speedway, that I thought to be the tire in question.

If you could possibly use pointer cones (in addition to the big tires), it would make it easier on at least myself.

Again, I can't claim to be a good driver. On stage, I don't have to figure out which way to go most of the time.
 

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I guess I just expected much much more from reputation. Matthew (as pictured) I believe hit it flat out. That would make it rather tame in my book.

And you are correct, the route book and notes did not indicate a triple caution or the like. It was reputation and hearsay from other comptetitors and organizers I was going by.

I was expecting a Brockway or Bais style big jump with a kicker lip (as it was described to me) with hardly any room to slow down. I am guessing that the years have eroded it.

Darn head games.

JC
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www.gnimotorsports.com
 
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