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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I heard a interesting bit of fairly odd specualtion this evening and I am asking the PRB to again be honest and forthright and say in no uncertain terms yes or no:

Has the position of Performance Rally Director been settled?

And is the person replacing Spitzner a certain Englishman formerly or currently employed as some sort of manager with the Prodrive operation? The person who sucessfully led the Subaru shameful squirming off the hook effort at the Wild West 02 reckless driving incident?
Or to put it more bluntly has a employee of one of the MFG council memebers just replaced the Spitzner who was the handmaiden of the MFG Council?

And who else was considered?
Who had the responsiblity for short lisst and authority for hiring?


And before all you cheerleader sorts get you skirts pleats all twisted
I was right about the last thing I asked about, the '04 revisions so save you bemoaning about 'conspiracy theories, it's really a crappy and hallow tactic to change the subject.
I am merely asking.


Inquiring minds want to know......

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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>Has the position of Performance Rally Director been settled?
[snip speculation]

If so, it's news to me. Not that I would necessarily expect Topeka to consult a volunteer board on their internal hiring decisions, but I'd like to think I'd at least heard of a decision.

Cheers,
- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
>
>>Has the position of Performance Rally Director been settled?

>
>If so, it's news to me. Not that I would necessarily expect
>Topeka to consult a volunteer board
what board? The Board which has for duties of the day to day running of the Performance rally in big parts of the USA??
I personally would think they would give some indication, especially as the bungle and outrage of hiring Spitzner caused so much division and animosity.

on their internal hiring
>decisions, but I'd like to think I'd at least heard of a
>decision.
Well from that point of view, I can see what you said.

But you do understand don't you that after Spitzners, obviously if the very question of the need for a PRDood is in question by many, the PROCESS OF APPOINTING somebody is DISCREDITED and that if they do hire a manager from a team which has been at the center of many of the obvious cases of Favoritism, it will be a scandalous thing and SCCAs creditibilty as a Club will be destroyed, and could be the end for many of their desire to associate with the SCCA.

That's why I asked Christian, it was not idle speculation.
It's appearant that the club needs somebody who is mindful of the needs of the bulk of the membership,
not somebody to merely Champion the cause of the Mfg teams


>
>Cheers,
>- Christian
>

ja, ja skål.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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400 flat to crest
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
>Would that be the same gentleman recently seen shopping for
>a new home in the Topeka area????? M-m-m-m, could be!

Can't say, never had the slightest desire to go to topeka, wanna play guessing games and give us some hints?





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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don't cut
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John, did you apply for the job? Seriously, I'm curious. Becuz it sure seems like you want it. You trash the guy doing it, and then you trash the guy (I know who you're talking about) who might be doing it. It's obvious you think you could do it better. If you applied for the job and were turned down, then you have every right to complain. But if you didn't, I'd suggest you send in a resume and a plan for doing it better than everyone else who's ever bothered to try.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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>That's why I asked Christian, it was not idle speculation.

Jajamen, I got that. My response is, to be as explicit as I can --

I've not heard anything, and though I don't expect to get a veto of any candidates, I would expect that the PRB at least be informed of the progress.

>John Vanlandingham

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
>John, did you apply for the job? Seriously, I'm curious.

first, is there an announcement of the hiring process?
No.
A decription of job duties?
No.
A breif of areas of responsiblity?
No.
A method for assuring that any candidate has 'in area' competence?
No.
A decription of what constitutes competence?
No.
Salary and benefits?
No.
listing of contract duratation and limits?
No.

>Becuz it sure seems like you want it.
No. I don't work well in committees, and administration is not what I do.

You trash the guy
Who was hired on an unknown mandate and began to make rues up on the spot based on spurious evedence created by himself, and was no better than a drug dealer on the corner promising the "good stuff" to everybody, promising that famous quote "I'VE GOT THE CHOPS......." and failed to deliver his boasts, a guy who knew nothing of what the merest lowly club guy starting to build his first car know. Since he had never built or participated in any sort of competition at all, as far as he made us aware in his famous post waaaaaaaaay back.
A guy who was thinking he was cleverly copying Dave Richards plans as if that wasn't obvious.


>doing it, and then you trash the guy (I know who you're
>talking about) who might be doing it.
Trashing the guy who might be doing it, come on I asked if a manager of one of the teams which had been at the center of various scandals would be the new guy.
That's trashing?

It's obvious you
>think you could do it better.

No I think that collectively a sort of consensus of the membership can be arrived at and that the Governance of the sport , if it is to have any crumb of legitimacy, must be re-structured to make the Board representitive and to have known limits and clear recall procedures.


If you applied for the job

I'm too busy trying to build dumb cars and start a family to even put either of my own cars back in order.
New wife, new life and my future in incresingly going to be part time in Chinese Motorsport.
then you have every right to complain.

I have a right to complain because of rules and regulations formulated with the appearant goal of driving virtually everybody I know out of the sport and make it some sort of playground for really really rich guys driving one or two brands.
This hurts me and my friends and customers.

I ask this, and not rhetorically or confrontationally:
Whats wrong with some semblace of a democratic process in the governace of our sport.

Did you get a vote on 34mm restrictor rule?
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 
G

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John-

If I missed this, I apologize, but twiddle the fingers and put some words up that describe your ideal candidate.

Who do you think would be good? What qualities should the SCCA be after?

no KS bashing in the response. no comparisons to Finland. I've met Kurt a few times and tire of seeing him being degraded as a person. At some point it becomes like listening to Rush Limbaugh bitch and moan about Bill Clinton. (Thank god he can't broadcast from rehab)

I want to know what we/they should be looking for within the context of the current US rally environment and the current SCCA bylaws.
 
G

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>I have a right to complain because of rules and regulations
>formulated with the appearant goal of driving virtually
>everybody I know out of the sport and make it some sort of
>playground for really really rich guys driving one or two
>brands.
>This hurts me and my friends and customers.


Forgive my two seperate followups, but it's a stretch to complain that rules are being made that cater to people with more money than the people who have enough money to pay someone else to prep their cars.

I should be completely incensed I can't even afford to pay you to prep my car, much less ProDrive.

I accepted long ago that my hobbies placed me as a bottom feeder in the economic structure of life and that I probably should be happy to exist there given the sheer magnitude of money at some people's disposal. If my backsliding gains more momentum, you will find me at the kiddie pedal tractor pulls regrooving tires.
 

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You assume that everyone was unhappy with Kurt's efforts. You are mistaken. Kurt did not please 100% of the people 100% of the time. So what? He recognized that the amateurism must go from our National Championship. I may not have been in total agreement with his top down approach, but he brought ProRally a long way in a short time.

Our National Championship needs a director. It will get a new one. That person will not be an amateur. He(she) may well make you wish for the return of Kurt Spitzner.
 

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If that happens to be the case, I can only imagine you'll see a further distancing of many from the SCCA, putting things back where they were 15 years ago or so. Then the rich boys can pay big money to enter the events! The entries will be in quantities or 30 or 40 and the entry fee for each will be 3 times what it is now (or more).
 

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What would be so wrong with DC? I don?t know the guy at all but it seams like someone like him would be good. Lots of experience in the sport on a very high level obviously competent to have made it so far with Prodrive ext. As for loyalties to Subaru, don?t kid yourself he is obviously professional and this isn?t some kind of childish game. He was doing his job for Subaru at WW just like he will do his job at the SCCA if he is hired. Example Louis Moya (Carlos Sainz?s ex. Co-driver since forever and close friend) is now Subarus Sporting director and is probably going to be crucial to Petter beating Carlos for the championship and was crucial to beating him in Corsica. Basic premise, why would you have any loyalties to an ex employer? In fact quite the contrary in the corporate world people have to have none competition clauses in their contracts. Anyone who has the desire and ability to drive the sport to success and the experience to back it up has my vote.
 

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"Performance" vs "ProRally" Director

Joe,

NASA would love that, no doubt. But the larger question is: Should it be a "Performance" or "ProRally" Director?

The next "Performance" Rally Director should pay as much attention to ClubRally as ProRally. (That didn't happen in the past.)

If SCCA's Mfg. Partners and License Holders want to pay for a "ProRally" Series Director, fine. Then say that's what it is. But, that position should have nothing to say about ClubRally and should not be empowered to deal with ClubRally matters at all. When cooperative efforts are desireable, someone else of EQUAL POWER should speak for ClubRally.

The needs of ProRally are now quite different from those of ClubRally. This fact has been well established and acknowledged by both sides during the past year. The ClubRally problem has been that ProRally gets all the SCCA attention.

Rich Smith

Vive le "Pro-le-Ralliat"
 

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Exactly Joe, he may have done a lot for ProRally, but diddly squat for Club Rally.
 

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RE: "Performance" vs "ProRally" Director

I agree 100%. That's why I referred to Kurt's approach as "top down". I know I often give the impression that I'm anti ClubRally and anti privateer. I'm not. Privateers are and will remain the backbone of our National Championship. It is my belief that the more attention, money & parts the manufacturers bring to the game, the easier it will become for those privateers to get the good stuff with less personal financial outgo. And(grammar, I know) the easier it will be for builders like JVL, Guy Light, and others to actually make a buck doing customer cars.

Club Rally is different. The direction is different, the competitive slant is different, and the organizational motivation is different. Club Rally needs its own director, someone who can focus on its needs. Club Rally is the place for older equipment in need of a home, beginners looking for a place to develop their skills, organizers looking for same, and those who COULD go National, but prefer their competition a little more laid back and, yes, fun.

I won't propose candidates for either post, as I'd prefer that those actually involved make those choices. That means having the manufacturers, ProRally organizers and major private concerns influence the choice of ProRally Director, and ALL other competitors, organizers and workers influence the choice of Club Rally Director. The one thing that many posters seem to forget is that you can't win 100% of the battles 100% of the time. All any of us can hope for is a resoloution we can live and be relatively happy with.
 
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