O seed question
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Joined
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2,516 Posts
>how do you become a O seed, and why do they get 2 minite
>windows when the rest of us get 1 dust filled minite, not
>very fair me thinks
Actually, now it is SpeedRanking(tm) of 0.95, not seed 0 (1.7.E.5). The way it is written, if you get re-seeded up into that exhalted area (the 'n' cars that get an extra minute), you get two minutes. However, in true SCCA fashion, 7.4.D.3 disagrees with this, stating that all cars start at one minute intervals.
Adrian
>windows when the rest of us get 1 dust filled minite, not
>very fair me thinks
Actually, now it is SpeedRanking(tm) of 0.95, not seed 0 (1.7.E.5). The way it is written, if you get re-seeded up into that exhalted area (the 'n' cars that get an extra minute), you get two minutes. However, in true SCCA fashion, 7.4.D.3 disagrees with this, stating that all cars start at one minute intervals.
Adrian
Joined
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960 Posts
>how do you become a O seed, and why do they get 2 minite
>windows when the rest of us get 1 dust filled minite, not
>very fair me thinks
Used to take 65 seeding points to get to seed 0. You need to pretty much finish in the top 4 in 5 events during the last two years.
>windows when the rest of us get 1 dust filled minite, not
>very fair me thinks
Used to take 65 seeding points to get to seed 0. You need to pretty much finish in the top 4 in 5 events during the last two years.
Joined
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1,630 Posts
RIM '03 Suplemental Regulations
7.4.D.3 ATC/Stage Starts
For safety purposes, any car that posts a stage time faster by 30 seconds or more than the car immediately in front on Stages 1 or 2, will be given a 2 minute spacing for subsequent stages up to and including stage 3.
Cheers
M.Samli
7.4.D.3 ATC/Stage Starts
For safety purposes, any car that posts a stage time faster by 30 seconds or more than the car immediately in front on Stages 1 or 2, will be given a 2 minute spacing for subsequent stages up to and including stage 3.
Cheers
M.Samli
MS,
That sup rule is designed to aid beginners that have fast(er)
cars and start way down the pack.
Leon, we've been directed by Mike/Paula to give the first N
cars an extra minute interval. N is set by the number of
Seed 0 entries at the start of the race. For rim '03 this
is six, if memory serves. Soooo, when you get into the top
six cars, no matter what your Seed, you will receive an
additional one minute added to your interval over that of
the "slower" cars.
Patrick
That sup rule is designed to aid beginners that have fast(er)
cars and start way down the pack.
Leon, we've been directed by Mike/Paula to give the first N
cars an extra minute interval. N is set by the number of
Seed 0 entries at the start of the race. For rim '03 this
is six, if memory serves. Soooo, when you get into the top
six cars, no matter what your Seed, you will receive an
additional one minute added to your interval over that of
the "slower" cars.
Patrick
thanks for the input, it makes it not fair on all the drivers not seed O, pity the SCCA doesn,t want an even playing field, I can see that you could have a driver that is faster than the top seed O but due to the dust never get to shine, Lets make everyone have a 1 minite window
Leon
Leon
>how do you become a O seed, and why do they get 2 minite
>windows when the rest of us get 1 dust filled minite, not
>very fair me thinks
Your right-it's not fair! However the powers that be really cannot concern themselves with fairness.
If these top drivers are so good why do they need more time then those less experienced? Wouldn't logic reverse this and give the less then top teams a larger dust window? It is for safety is it not? No, it is not. It is for an unfair advantage of factory teams-top 6 cars!
>windows when the rest of us get 1 dust filled minite, not
>very fair me thinks
Your right-it's not fair! However the powers that be really cannot concern themselves with fairness.
If these top drivers are so good why do they need more time then those less experienced? Wouldn't logic reverse this and give the less then top teams a larger dust window? It is for safety is it not? No, it is not. It is for an unfair advantage of factory teams-top 6 cars!
Joined
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23 Posts
The 2-minute interval at the front of the rally is meant to better equalize the chances of winning for those drivers who are most likely to win.
The rationale for this rule is the assumption that the winner of an event will most likely be one of the top seeded drivers and the one running first on the road should not enjoy such a significant dust advantage. Class battles other than Open generally occur outside of this group with all having the same 1-minute interval between them.
Mark Williams
The rationale for this rule is the assumption that the winner of an event will most likely be one of the top seeded drivers and the one running first on the road should not enjoy such a significant dust advantage. Class battles other than Open generally occur outside of this group with all having the same 1-minute interval between them.
Mark Williams
>The 2-minute interval at the front of the rally is meant to
>better equalize the chances of winning for those drivers who
>are most likely to win.
>
>The rationale for this rule is the assumption that the
>winner of an event will most likely be one of the top seeded
>drivers and the one running first on the road should not
>enjoy such a significant dust advantage. Class battles
>other than Open generally occur outside of this group with
>all having the same 1-minute interval between them.
>
>Mark Williams
Want to make it fair then have a "Zero start car" that starts 1 minute in front of the first car. Run each car 1 minute apart-that would be more fair. There is no "assumption", there is policy to make a top seeded driver event winner. Without the 2 minute dust window a top seeded driver is still most likely to win overall.
On a dusty event it is unlikely that with no wind fairness can be achieved, even by a 2 minute window. The later cars will always have the accumulation of hanging dust from the earlier cars to contend with.
Also this theory ASSUMEs there is no other competitors within the same class as the first 6 cars, or else puts the rest of the class at a disadvantage!!
>better equalize the chances of winning for those drivers who
>are most likely to win.
>
>The rationale for this rule is the assumption that the
>winner of an event will most likely be one of the top seeded
>drivers and the one running first on the road should not
>enjoy such a significant dust advantage. Class battles
>other than Open generally occur outside of this group with
>all having the same 1-minute interval between them.
>
>Mark Williams
Want to make it fair then have a "Zero start car" that starts 1 minute in front of the first car. Run each car 1 minute apart-that would be more fair. There is no "assumption", there is policy to make a top seeded driver event winner. Without the 2 minute dust window a top seeded driver is still most likely to win overall.
On a dusty event it is unlikely that with no wind fairness can be achieved, even by a 2 minute window. The later cars will always have the accumulation of hanging dust from the earlier cars to contend with.
Also this theory ASSUMEs there is no other competitors within the same class as the first 6 cars, or else puts the rest of the class at a disadvantage!!
Joined
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2,229 Posts
>Actually, now it is SpeedRanking(tm) of 0.95, not seed 0
>(1.7.E.5). The way it is written, if you get re-seeded up
>into that exhalted area (the 'n' cars that get an extra
>minute), you get two minutes. However, in true SCCA fashion,
>7.4.D.3 disagrees with this, stating that all cars start at
>one minute intervals.
FYI, I have noted this inconsistency in the rule book, and have added it to the list of corrections/clean-up/admin items for 2004, to ensure that this is corrected for next year's book.
Thanks,
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
>(1.7.E.5). The way it is written, if you get re-seeded up
>into that exhalted area (the 'n' cars that get an extra
>minute), you get two minutes. However, in true SCCA fashion,
>7.4.D.3 disagrees with this, stating that all cars start at
>one minute intervals.
FYI, I have noted this inconsistency in the rule book, and have added it to the list of corrections/clean-up/admin items for 2004, to ensure that this is corrected for next year's book.
Thanks,
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
>
> Want to make it fair then have a "Zero start car" that
>starts 1 minute in front of the first car. Run each car 1
>minute apart-that would be more fair. There is no
>"assumption", there is policy to make a top seeded driver
>event winner. Without the 2 minute dust window a top seeded
>driver is still most likely to win overall.
> On a dusty event it is unlikely that with no wind fairness
>can be achieved, even by a 2 minute window. The later cars
>will always have the accumulation of hanging dust from the
>earlier cars to contend with.
> Also this theory ASSUMEs there is no other competitors
>within the same class as the first 6 cars, or else puts the
>rest of the class at a disadvantage!!
Minor question, who are we going to import that can stay a minute ahead of the top 6 drivers? And who is going to prepare and service the car?
Richard Miller
> Want to make it fair then have a "Zero start car" that
>starts 1 minute in front of the first car. Run each car 1
>minute apart-that would be more fair. There is no
>"assumption", there is policy to make a top seeded driver
>event winner. Without the 2 minute dust window a top seeded
>driver is still most likely to win overall.
> On a dusty event it is unlikely that with no wind fairness
>can be achieved, even by a 2 minute window. The later cars
>will always have the accumulation of hanging dust from the
>earlier cars to contend with.
> Also this theory ASSUMEs there is no other competitors
>within the same class as the first 6 cars, or else puts the
>rest of the class at a disadvantage!!
Minor question, who are we going to import that can stay a minute ahead of the top 6 drivers? And who is going to prepare and service the car?
Richard Miller
Joined
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339 Posts
Yep, I believe WRC events have priority 1 and 2 drivers. I am not sure if this is group specific or speed rating or experience or whatever but the difference is the same here. Priority 1 = 2min, priority 2 = 1 min.
I grabbed this from the article about Antony Warmbold on Rallylive:
"Leg Two: Leg two proved to be a frustrating day for the young German, running 29th on the road to reflect his finishing position on day one. Unfortunately, this placed Warmbold amongst the slower Group N cars, running at one-minute intervals rather than the 2 minutes for his fellow Priority One drivers."
I grabbed this from the article about Antony Warmbold on Rallylive:
"Leg Two: Leg two proved to be a frustrating day for the young German, running 29th on the road to reflect his finishing position on day one. Unfortunately, this placed Warmbold amongst the slower Group N cars, running at one-minute intervals rather than the 2 minutes for his fellow Priority One drivers."
Rally isn't fair, get used to it. The same cars that enjoy the two minute window are also acting as road sweepers, which can cost a lot of time. Bet they don't like that, but that's the way it is.
At snodrift this year the first 3 or 4 car had to run skinny snow tires to dig through the fresh powder, while the rest of us got to use wider snow/ice tires and run a much cleaner road. This enabled the eventual winners to take time back from the overnight leaders. Farther back, we also got the advantage of seeing other's lines.
Last year at OFPR the second half of the field was caught on stage by a thunderstorm, which obviously benefitted the first half of the field. This could very well as easily been other way around. You never know what's gonna happen.
Bottom line, there are pros and cons to every position on the road. Do your best, drive your hardest, and let the cards fall where they may.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
At snodrift this year the first 3 or 4 car had to run skinny snow tires to dig through the fresh powder, while the rest of us got to use wider snow/ice tires and run a much cleaner road. This enabled the eventual winners to take time back from the overnight leaders. Farther back, we also got the advantage of seeing other's lines.
Last year at OFPR the second half of the field was caught on stage by a thunderstorm, which obviously benefitted the first half of the field. This could very well as easily been other way around. You never know what's gonna happen.
Bottom line, there are pros and cons to every position on the road. Do your best, drive your hardest, and let the cards fall where they may.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
Joined
·
960 Posts
>thanks for the input, it makes it not fair on all the
>drivers not seed O, pity the SCCA doesn,t want an even
>playing field, I can see that you could have a driver that
>is faster than the top seed O but due to the dust never get
>to shine, Lets make everyone have a 1 minite window
>Leon
I agree with the "fairness" aspect of this. We should all have the same conditions.
The problem is that many dusty rallys are won at the seeded draw. Start first on the road, you get an unfair advantage to the rest of the competitors.
With an 80 car field if you space ALL the cars 2 minutes apart, pretty soon you have 80 x 2 minutes = 160 minutes to have all cars run through a stage. Nearly 3 hours. And some of the stages need to be ran a 2nd time the same day. Not to hard to see that we could get a back log. Ask the paid organisers to help us come up with a better solution perhaps?
>drivers not seed O, pity the SCCA doesn,t want an even
>playing field, I can see that you could have a driver that
>is faster than the top seed O but due to the dust never get
>to shine, Lets make everyone have a 1 minite window
>Leon
I agree with the "fairness" aspect of this. We should all have the same conditions.
The problem is that many dusty rallys are won at the seeded draw. Start first on the road, you get an unfair advantage to the rest of the competitors.
With an 80 car field if you space ALL the cars 2 minutes apart, pretty soon you have 80 x 2 minutes = 160 minutes to have all cars run through a stage. Nearly 3 hours. And some of the stages need to be ran a 2nd time the same day. Not to hard to see that we could get a back log. Ask the paid organisers to help us come up with a better solution perhaps?
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