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Old-skool!
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307 Posts
Chad,
I don't bash RA at every opportunity, Christ, I'd already be banned, but the lack of consistant administration of the ever-changing novice rules does get me bit riled up. Sorry, if I ranted.
Ted
 

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Kevin Welker
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479 Posts
another point of data: I ran my first RA event in a normally aspirated AWD Subaru. this is the email that I wrote the RA to get the allowance:
me said:
Hello Mike,
I am following RallyAmerica protocol by requesting the novice waiver required to allow me to run my first RallyAmerica rally in an all wheel drive car. I have perticipated in three NASA rallys so far in our 2001 Subaru Impreza non-turbo, most recently Laughlin 2007 where we finished second in Production GT, 18th overall. Prior to getting into the driver's seat I was service crew chief for Jon Bottoms team for two seasons and competitive in rallyX and autoX for 10 years.
My codriver Nolan Sambrano codrove for me at Laughlin, has successfully completed the Ridgecrest rally school and is coming along very well as a codriver.
I believe we can safely and successfully complete the coefficient 2 Seed9 rally.
Please let me know your decision on this matter.
Thank you,
Kevin Welker
and this was the response:

Kevin,

You request for exemption from novice rules, to compete in a normally aspirated AWD impreza, has been granted.

This exemption has been noted in our database.

Best wishes and good luck at Seed 9.
Seed9 used a routebook, so no notes issue there, but we definitely prefer notes over a routebook or tulips. I personally feel the lack of detail from tulips or a routebook is more dangerous than notes.

Just my experience as a relative newcomer who overcame the rules to have a good time in an AWD car without killing myself or my bank account. I hope this helps guide other newcomers into asking permission and working with the people of the sanctioning bodies rather than hiding away and taking the rulebook too literally. Racers in every sport know that the rulebook is just a "starting point" and that "interpretation" is necessary to work in your best interest.
 

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don't cut
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4,075 Posts
Chad,
I don't bash RA at every opportunity, Christ, I'd already be banned, but the lack of consistant administration of the ever-changing novice rules does get me bit riled up. Sorry, if I ranted.
Ted
Bashing Rally America seems to be fully acceptable in this forum. According to George's public statements, that is not why little john was banned.
 

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Old-skool!
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307 Posts
"NASA offers an excellent selection of rallies to choose from..."

CARS, too!

Or, spin the wheel to see if RA will let the poor noob run an AWD turbo car today or change the roll cage requirements again ;-).
 

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57 Posts
as i was cruising through these posts i noticed the subject got changed. weren't we talking about complete noobs like me getting into an open class AWD car in rally america, possibly with a turbo. No experience really.

"I am following RallyAmerica protocol by requesting the novice waiver required to allow me to run my first RallyAmerica rally in an all wheel drive car. I have perticipated in three NASA rallys so far in our 2001 Subaru Impreza non-turbo, most recently Laughlin 2007 where we finished second in Production GT, 18th overall. Prior to getting into the driver's seat I was service crew chief for Jon Bottoms team for two seasons and competitive in rallyX and autoX for 10 years.
My codriver Nolan Sambrano codrove for me at Laughlin, has successfully completed the Ridgecrest rally school and is coming along very well as a codriver."

Then you came in saying 10 years of auto x / rally x and service crew and Nasa Rally's...so you were a noob to rally america, not rally racing or racing in general. I just thought we were on COMPLETE noobs.
Also there was a post of how the one applying would ask for a waiver including, racing experience X, Y, and Z...

As for me, I do plan to try and attend O'Neil's Rally School next summer if I can but I would still be a noob. That would be all of my experience. I'm not backing out on my Audi.
 

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Bumping an old thread, but anyone have newer thoughts on this.

I currently own an '02 WRX wagon but I am considering selling it for something like a 1.8L AWD Impreza OBS to run in Production class.

If it's still possible for novices to get a waiver to run PGT, I would consider buying a stock or prepped 00 or 01 2.5RS instead.

I'm still a few years away from stage rally, but I'm trying to make the right decisions now to set myself up for it.
I'm doing the same, I am going to try my hardest to stay on this course but as of now I want to get a spot at Team Oneil's Rally School next Summer and immediately after I come back start the build. Send it somewhere for cage and order all the goodies, which after my calculations is about $12,000 in goodies. Then make my stage rally debut at Rally New York in April 2010. Or I could just build the car and try to debut at Gorman Ridge. But I would be running PGT in my Audi.
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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3,979 Posts
If I was Richard Spaulding or Kenny Bartram or any of the others who played by the RA noob rules and bought 2wd, nornally aspirated Beetles or Focii, when you know they really wanted AWD turbo beasts, then saw an absolulte noob lined up in an open class turbo car, I might be a little bit peeved.
Sorry Ted, (said with love) but you are postulating out your posterior on the Bartram front. Kenny rented the Beetle from me for 100AW '06 anticipating a jump to Open class ASAP. The situation that led to his buying, and subsequently campaigning, in Production that season had more to do with delays of the VTSCAR build of his STi (we were unable to debut it before Maine that year) than anything. After his success in Missouri he (we) thought there would be some marketing advantages available someone with an established fan base who could make a successful leap into rallying. Kenny chose to buy the Bug outright and rent my services for what turned out to be a perfect season (no DNFs, won the Donison and Woodner Cups, and claimed Rookie of the Year).

FWIW - I have never heard Kenny grumble about anything but his own driving/riding or his occasional bad luck with the ladies ...

So far as Mira is concerned, he'd spent a lot of time at Team O'Neil's and finished a CARS winter rally before he first appeared at S*D but still ran that event with a non-turbo powered Subie so I fail to see how he was granted any special treatment.

Hell, spending money has been the only fast track to rally "success" since the 70s - and not necessarily by buying go-fast goodies but by knowing that you learn your limits quicker if you can afford to explore them, wad up a car and still compete a week or two later. I'm pretty sure it's all those AWD turbo cars that utter noobs were throwing into the trees some years ago that led to RA's restrictions of folks with no applicable rally experience.

Finally - unless something has changed recently, a Production-legal car can run any RA class they care to enter. At one time or another I ran the Bug - in Production-spec - in every class SCCA or RA offered except Grp N, so just because someone shows up in Open class does not mean the car isn't P or G2 legal (or, presumably, otherwise restricted to keep RA and their insurance company satisfied).

With that I'll crawl back in my hole ...

MM ...
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
Your math is correct, but remember, you have to FINISH those coefficients.
Bruce:

If a new competitor finished all of the stages on a rally successfully, did all of timing correctly, drove safely and otherwise showed an understanding of what stage rallying is, what would happen if they did not finish the rally due to say a transmission failure after the last stage on the transit to the finish.?

Would RA consider giving them the points?

Just interested, as in CARS, finishing is not necessarily a requirement and the words used are something like "demonstrate that they have successfully competed in the event".

Doug Woods
 

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Bruce:

If a new competitor finished all of the stages on a rally successfully, did all of timing correctly, drove safely and otherwise showed an understanding of what stage rallying is, what would happen if they did not finish the rally due to say a transmission failure after the last stage on the transit to the finish.?

Would RA consider giving them the points?

Just interested, as in CARS, finishing is not necessarily a requirement and the words used are something like "demonstrate that they have successfully competed in the event".
I'm sure if a competitor could document that such a thing happened, he could get credit for at least PART of the rally. Competitors have been forgiven a coefficient or two if they've performed well but had bad luck over several events...at least they've been excused from attending a fifth or sixth rookie class. All the ones I know about were still in Production or G2 anyway.

Our road racing brethren have the advantage of being able to watch rookies DURING a race. Tough to do on a rally. Setting good times could mean a talented driver - or a guy driving like a maniac.

Bruce
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
Just interested, as in CARS, finishing is not necessarily a requirement and the words used are something like "demonstrate that they have successfully competed in the event".
It is interesting wording as I have said in the past that it is possible to finish an event while not 'successfully competing' in it. Think, re-prepping the car during tech, borrowing helmets and suits because the M helmets and Karting suits were turned away, 9 minutes of earliness, 29 minutes of lateness per leg, control procedure violations, 10 minutes per stage for a window open, constantly getting lost on transits ... and so on.
 

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It is interesting wording as I have said in the past that it is possible to finish an event while not 'successfully competing' in it. Think, re-prepping the car during tech, borrowing helmets and suits because the M helmets and Karting suits were turned away, 9 minutes of earliness, 29 minutes of lateness per leg, control procedure violations, 10 minutes per stage for a window open, constantly getting lost on transits ... and so on.
This is just the sort of stuff we should be monitoring for novices. We try, but a lot of it slips through the cracks. The tech guys pick up on a lot of it, but they don't necessarily report it...and the road points require somebody to study the results carefully. I agree, a team could "finish" without "competing." The good part of the "finish" requirement is that it's totally objective...the bad part is what's discussed above.

Bruce
 

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Rally, Win, Drink Beer
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895 Posts
I'm doing the same, I am going to try my hardest to stay on this course but as of now I want to get a spot at Team Oneil's Rally School next Summer and immediately after I come back start the build. Send it somewhere for cage and order all the goodies, which after my calculations is about $12,000 in goodies. Then make my stage rally debut at Rally New York in April 2010. Or I could just build the car and try to debut at Gorman Ridge. But I would be running PGT in my Audi.
I'll see you at Team O'Neil next year (hopefully). ;)

I am hoping to complete a school there next year and maybe rent a 2WD Production class car to compete somewhere like Rally NY at the end of next year.

I'm volunteering at Rally WV at the end of this month and may try to co-drive a few events in the beginning of next year.
 
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