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R-A seems to be more in my region (Chicago)...I love Canada and I do plan to run CARS. I'm not to sure on the NASA schedule but I don't remember too many events close to here, Raly Tennessee is probably the closest. Where I have Sno* Drift, Ojibwe, Gravity Park. I think I can have nine points by running these events right. 2 Regionals at 3 = 6....one at 3 and 2 = 11...i'm already there? is this right..?
as Bruce says, your maths is correct, however....having 11 co-eff points doesnt necessarily mean you will be allowed to drive an open class car.

Do you have the latest RA rulebook? Have you read it?

I am open to being corrected but as I understood the rules last year (2007 Ed) as a novice driver you have to amass 9 pts (not more than one co-eff 1 rally) before your license is changed to provisional. At this stage you can only still drive G2 or Production (not PGT) but if I remember correctly you are then allow to use stage notes, up to that time only tulips unless your co-driver has 20 co-effs or not. (I THINK!). Once you attain a further 9 pts (18 total) then you become an urestricted driver. Again, you must finish the events. It's all about milage and building experience, not point collecting. Finish...just finish.

At any time (novice or provisional) you can apply for for a waiver accompanied by a competition history to drive a more powerful car but may be subject to restrcitions. I think a 28mm restrictor was one option.
This is great because if you have a history in track or off-road racing that should count for something. I would imagine that driving around dirt backroads or even track days won't count...actual competition, with dates and results.

Either way, check the 2008 rules and most of your questions should be answered...or save yourself a headache and run NASA events...
 

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stylin' and profilin'...WOOOO!
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I have to finish the rally to get the coefficients....didn't know that. I see it as, one round trip to ojibwe for 3 is cheaper that a round trip to GP and a round trip to Nemadji Trail...I just want to be able to run a car of my liking, probably some Mopar car or a Audi. 2 favorite brands but it will ultimately come up to whats affordable and reasonable.

And yes it would be an AWD Audi 1.8T
If you're wanting to log lotsa coeffs...

Ojibwe Forest Rally as seen by the amateurs:
Paul Bunyan's Ride = 3 coeffs on Friday
10000 Lakes = 3 coeffs on Saturday

Finish both days and get 6 coeffs for one tow.

Did i mention what a great rally I think OFR is?
 

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Dadrick typed: "RA requires the novices run Prod or G2 until they accumulate enough points."


What Prod or G2 cars did Dave Mirra or others accumulate RA points in? RA waivers the in-crowd. If you are posting questions on SS.com, you are not a member! Are you wealthy? Then talk to right people, write some checks, it will all fall into place for you.
 

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Cheddarwagen Pilot
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RA waivers the in-crowd.
RA grants waivers based on a number of factors, however, I don't think bankroll is one of them.

If it was, then the guy who borrowed my HANS and helmet for his first rally (RA sanctioned) in a open class turbo Subaru wouldn't have gotten his waiver.
 

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Dadrick typed: "RA requires the novices run Prod or G2 until they accumulate enough points."


What Prod or G2 cars did Dave Mirra or others accumulate RA points in? RA waivers the in-crowd. If you are posting questions on SS.com, you are not a member! Are you wealthy? Then talk to right people, write some checks, it will all fall into place for you.

I'm unsure if there is actual interest in understanding what the process can actually consist of, or if this is mostly just an exercise in venting negative spew.

RA requires a certain level of experience. They'll accept other applicable motorsports experience, as they judge it. They'll accepted documented rally experience from other organizations (ie CARS or NRS). They'll accept rally schools as driving experience.

So there is no "accumulate RA points" requirement, and the requirement to run P or G2 has other alternate methods of demonstrating competency that are equivalent to competing in either of those classes.

I've yet to hear of anyone who had seriously committed to completing their car and competing at a specific event who found this rule to be a significant obstacle. I've read plenty of excuses put forth by folks who were just looking for something else to winge about.

The Colorado guys were really proactive about getting with the Rally Colorado organizers and RA and enabling interested parties to get started. Kudos to them for their ACTION.
 

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"his first rally(RA sanctioned) in a open class turbo Subaru"
Those are some novice rules, aren't they? RA chose to treat your friend differently. Fair enough. Sounds like the rule is only for fools who think that rules are to be followed.
 

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eating dust taking photos
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Dadrick typed: "RA requires the novices run Prod or G2 until they accumulate enough points."


What Prod or G2 cars did Dave Mirra or others accumulate RA points in? RA waivers the in-crowd. If you are posting questions on SS.com, you are not a member! Are you wealthy? Then talk to right people, write some checks, it will all fall into place for you.
Dave started out in a naturally aspirated AWD car.

It was run in open but the engine really hadn't been touched at all from what I understand.

He also did a multiple day school at Tim Os (one of the accredited and accepted schools for exemptions), ran with a highly experienced co-driver, and didn't get to run the turbo car until he completed the co-efficients anyone else would have had to have completed.

I'm all about calling out BS but really Ted?

There are a very significant amount of people that have gotten exemptions to run naturally aspirated AWD cars, even some to run lower powered turbo AWD cars. It was easier for Dave because he had money (so he could afford all of the events, schools, and going to Canada) but he still had to jump through the same hoops that others would have had to have jumped through...
 

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The Colorado guys were really proactive about getting with the Rally Colorado organizers and RA and enabling interested parties to get started. Kudos to them for their ACTION.
We've also been putting a lot of pressure on guys determined to go the route of AWD straight out of the box to stay naturally aspirated, some of whom have already received their waivers to compete in naturally aspirated form.

JB and Mike were very reasonable and very forth coming in our group discussions. Real documented results and experience would be considered and mechanical situations, with in reason, could be discussed with solutions (within reason) found.

Starting the dialog and being willing to take the time to put together proper documentation of anything truly relevant will go a long way to all parties being happy when it is all said and done.
 

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My gripe is that the rule should be enforced or changed. How good is it if almost everyone who schmoozes Mr Niday gets a waiver, but some poor SOB who catches him on a bad day or doesn't know to call for a waiver has to build or buy some old golf POS he doesn't want?

I do know of people who were denied waivers and other people who built or bought lesser cars thinking that they had to abide by the above mentioned rules.

Kevin and Bentmettle, I AM happy that your group are being treated well by the RA rules waiver Cabal. You both are truly priviledged! Personally, I think the SCCA was better at providing an even playing field (until they ditched ProRally)!
 

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don't cut
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So Ted, you are saying the J.B. plays favorites? Is there any one who was denied a waiver who actually had demonstrated experience? Driving fast on dirt roads to get home every day is not rally experience. Driving track days in a fast street car is not rally experience. Being a multi winner at the Runoffs will count for something. But it did not for Elliot Forbes Robinson back in the 80s when he was forced to start in the back as a Seed 6 (novice) driver at POR. Finished 10th over all IIRC. And this was in a 2WD 1600CC Toyota.
 

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I do know of people who were denied waivers and other people who built or bought lesser cars thinking that they had to abide by the above mentioned rules.

Kevin and Bentmettle, I AM happy that your group are being treated well by the RA rules waiver Cabal. You both are truly priviledged! Personally, I think the SCCA was better at providing an even playing field (until they ditched ProRally)!


Having helped some people go through the process, and discussing it with JB and Mike, I would be very curious as to what those individuals asked for and how they asked it.

Calling up and saying "I want to run a PGT WRX as a nOOb, can I?" SHOULD be told no. Calling up and saying, "I purchased a PGT WRX, have X, Y, Z for racing experience and can provide results to verify that, and would like to find a way to run my WRX, is there a way we can make that happen?" very likely will result in some form of yes (which may or may not include something like removing the turbo for the first rally or 4 but will still be some form of yes).

I very much believe you when you say people went out and bought/built 2wd cars (the rule says you have to unless you think you are exception worthy, in which case you need to prove that you are in fact exception worthy). I also very much believe you that you know people that have been denied waivers.

However, I also very much believe JB when he said that there have been far fewer denials of well put together and well reasoned applications for waivers with competitors that were willing to accept additional restrictions than competitors that have been able to come to a workable solution and receive a waiver.
 

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Richard wrote "So Ted, you are saying the J.B. plays favorites".
We all play favorites.

C Eixen wrote "then the guy who borrowed my HANS and helmet for his first rally (RA sanctioned) in a open class turbo Subaru"

Sounds to me like someone started his first rally with a open class turbo Subaru. What were his qualifications?

If I was Richard Spaulding or Kenny Bartram or any of the others who played by the RA noob rules and bought 2wd, nornally aspirated Beetles or Focii, when you know they really wanted AWD turbo beasts, then saw an absolulte noob lined up in an open class turbo car, I might be a little bit peeved.

It looks to me the rules are written to scare people off, but obviously Kevin, C. Eixen and other RA fanboys know the secret work around.

Furthermore, Kevin what makes you qualified to be deciding which noobs get to drive PGT WRXs?

Nothing personal, just my (very unpopular) opinion.
 

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It looks to me the rules are written to scare people off, but obviously Kevin, C. Eixen and other RA fanboys know the secret work around.

Furthermore, Kevin what makes you qualified to be deciding which noobs get to drive PGT WRXs?

The secret work around? HA!

"The secret work around" is following the rules and asking for an exemption with a well reasoned application and being flexible.

Oh yeah, I'm not qualified, and guess what? I don't get to decide!

JB exclusively gets the privledge of dealing with the can of worms that is new driver rules, waiver applications, and insurance adjusters.

I'm just pointing out that there is a system in place to attempt to run in something other than a low powered 2wd car, and if you really want to do it, and are reasonable about it, you have a decent shot at starting with something AWD so long as you are reasonable about it. Have I exceeded my reasonable quota yet?

I've seen first hand people get waivers, its not just for the ultra rich (which seems to annoy far too many people)...
 

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Here is the section from the rulebook:

C. Novice and Provisional Driver License Requirements

1. All initial Rally Driver License applicants will be issued a Novice
Drivers License.

a. The Novice Driver’s progress will be tracked by Rally America.

b. Any driver with significant previous automobile racing experience
may, at this point, apply for an unrestricted rally license by
attaching a complete race experience resume to the license
application. The application will require the endorsement of a
steward and the approval of Rally America.

2. A Novice Drivers License will restrict a driver to compete only in a
Group 2 or Production Class car. Any Novice Driver wishing to
compete in a class/car other than those listed may request a special
waiver for their car. These cars will be subject to special restrictions
to be determined by Rally America, e.g. they may be required to run
a 28mm restrictor on a turbo car. Such requests must be submitted
in writing and will be noted on the Driver's license history.

3. The Novice Driver must attend the New Competitors’ Seminar prior
to each event.

4. The Novice Driver remains Seed 8. [actually stricken from book]

5. An approved performance rally school will be credit for up to 4
coefficients, with approval of the chief instructor, but only one school
may be applied to any license level requirement.

6. Once the Novice Driver has completed 9 coefficients, including no
more than one coefficient 1 rally, his/her license status is changed to
Provisional. The stewards of any event in which they have
competed may recommend delaying this upgrade.

a. Any driver with significant previous automobile racing experience
may, at this point, apply for an unrestricted rally license by
sending a complete race experience resume to Rally America.
The application will require the endorsement of a steward and
the approval of Rally America.

7. A Provisional Drivers License will restrict a driver to compete only in
a Group 2 or Production Class car. Exception: Any Provisional
Driver wishing to compete in a class/car other than those listed may
request a special waiver for their car. These cars will be subject to
special restrictions to be determined by Rally America, e.g. they may
be required to run a 28mm restrictor on a turbo car. Such requests
must be submitted in writing and will be noted on the Driver's license
history.

8. A Provisional Driver’s license holder may advance his/her Seed
based on his performance.

9. Once the Provisional Driver has completed an additional 9
coefficients including no more than one coefficient 1 rally, he/she
becomes an unrestricted driver.

<end copy and paste>

The possibility of using previous experience to advance this process is listed multiple times. I suppose there are people out there who don't take tax deductions they are entitled to, either.
 

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don't cut
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C Eixen wrote "then the guy who borrowed my HANS and helmet for his first rally (RA sanctioned) in a open class turbo Subaru"

Sounds to me like someone started his first rally with a open class turbo Subaru. What were his qualifications?
I don't know who Chad was talking about so I obviously don't know what his qualifications were. But they were good enough. However, the point Chad was making is that this person is not rich enough to go buy a legal helmet and a HANS at the drop of a hat. So being rich is not among his qualifications.
 

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Cheddarwagen Pilot
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However, the point Chad was making is that this person is not rich enough to go buy a legal helmet and a HANS at the drop of a hat. So being rich is not among his qualifications.
Bingo.

This wasn't a big-shot with a special in. It was a regular guy who got a great deal on a rally car and worked with JB to figure out how he can rally it.

If I was Richard Spaulding or Kenny Bartram or any of the others who played by the RA noob rules and bought 2wd, nornally aspirated Beetles or Focii, when you know they really wanted AWD turbo beasts, then saw an absolulte noob lined up in an open class turbo car, I might be a little bit peeved.

It looks to me the rules are written to scare people off, but obviously Kevin, C. Eixen and other RA fanboys know the secret work around.
Why would you be peeved? Did you ever think Kenny ran a P class Beetle so he could have a chance of winning a class championship his rookie season? Or maybe he listened to experienced rally veterans who told him that the quickest and least expensive way to become a better driver is to start in an underpowered 2wd car where you HAVE to drive smooth to conserve momentum.

And I didn't realize that pointing out the logical flaws in rants made me a fanboy, but I guess since I don't bash RA at every opportunity, I must be. :rolleyes:
 
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