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just another old phart
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Okay, I'll admit it. I don't like SuperRally. I guess I'm just too much of an old fart traditionalist to embrace this morph of rally.

Nonetheless, good luck with it USRC. I hope it another ingredient in a successful recipe to making the sport grow.
 

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eating dust taking photos
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I'd be less opposed to it if it were the median time not the scratch time plus 5 minutes...

Still think SuperRally teams in the WRC shouldn't be elligible for drivers points, makes points only...
 

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Super rally allows teams with more money to be even more effective. To finish first you must first finish. I guess maybe it's better for TV but it sux for the privateer without the 15 person crew.
 

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All three NA entries in Mexico used the Super Rally program.

Not saying whether it's bad or not, but it did allow those of us there(for various reasons) to continue the rally.

Would I be a fan of it here in North America? I'm not sure, but we didn't have a 15 crew team or gobs of money, but having the time to repair the car and rejoin Sunday was a welcome situation. There was no way we could make up the deficit even with the scratch plus 5 minute penalty, so we did not threaten any of those who completed all the stages.

Some of the other competitors might chime in as well.

John
 

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i think it's a great thing.
i rented a open class for ramada last year and went off in the second stage. we all put a lot of time and money and weren't able to show anything.
Graham (owner of the car) ask me if i wanted to run the next day, and i said for what? the risk of breaking a $70k car just for the fun of driving wasn't a good reason enought. But if we could rejoined the rally and have a chance to win, i would have done it.
so yes the big team will have more chances to win because they have the money and resource to rebuil a car overnight, but think of the privater who spend months to get there car ready and go off in the first day of a 3 days rally. if they have a chance of fixing there car and have and overall result, i like that. Also that way it will bring more car to the end of the rally, wich will be good for the show.
it will be great if RA could do the same.
 

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Down here (Australia) instead of SuperRally, we divide our National Championship rallies up into heats, each day being a heat. Points are awarded for each heat win, and there is a bonus point for the winner of the most stages across the entire rally. If a crew goes off or fails to finish a day(heat) then they can rejoin the next day and maybe win that heat, but they obviously aren't going to score any points in the heat they went out on. It seems to work well, but be warned the carnage can be pretty high because each heat is only about 60-70 miles competitive, and they are usually won by less than 5 seconds - the closest winning margin last year was just 0.3 seconds, so the crews are driving absolutely on the limit (and often over it)for the entire rally.

Being able to rejoin the next day does work well for us down here, as like you guys up there in the U.S. the tow distances here are huge, and it's a real bummer to tow 2,500 miles and then break a diff on the start lien of the first SS like we did a few years ago (before the heats were introduced) - it was a very long, slow drive home.
 

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For those not familiar with how things are currently done in the RA series, I'll run down the current methods.

Most National level events have 2 regional events run concurrently with the national. For 2 day events, these regionals are typically 1st day and 2nd day while for 1 day events like STPR, its usually the morning/afternoon stages and then the afternoon/night stages. If a national level competitor DNF's in the portion of the rally that is the first regional, they typically may enter the 2nd day regional through a process specified by the organizer. This way, they may run for seat time and or regional points (if elligible) without throwing away their entire tow to the event.

True you don't get to score points for the national championship round, but at the same time, you didn't complete the event... *shrugs* In the end, it really comes down to your view of what rally is. I happen to feel like "endurance" part of the sport is important to differentiating rally from alot of the other auto-sports out there - particularly in the USA where there are so many other options.

Brad
 

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NonRally

>Okay, I'll admit it. I don't like SuperRally. I guess I'm
>just too much of an old fart traditionalist to embrace this
>morph of rally.


It isn't a morph of rally. It is no longer rally. It is NonRally.

People who DNF should be allowed to continue, BUT gather 0 (that is ZERO, none, nada, zip) points. Thereby they can have fun and seat time.

The youngsters better hope I don't win the Powerball lottery, or I'll buy out Rally America and NASA rally and you'll have JensRally. JensRally is real rally. It is endurance rally, all F'ing night long until the sun comes up rally. JensRally is NOT forest sprint racing, NOT manicured hero worship, and NOT TelevisionRally.

I know you are thinking to yourselves, "I hope Jens doesn't win the Powerball." You might want to rethink that, because if you don't rally in the U.S. is going to end up in closed venues such as stadiums where there will be lots of television, hotdogs and beer, but no rally. Rally will be dead. Don't believe me? Just wait and see.
 

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RE: NonRally

Have to go with Jens on this one. I totally agree that rallies are not what they used to be, unfortunately. You break on an event, you fix it without going otl and you still play. and get points. You break, fix it after 'time out' and you can still play, but no points.
Before coming to the States, an event I did 6 times in Belgium consisted of 450 miles of competitive mileage. Approximately 10hrs of competition. Then FIA poked their damned noses in and suddenly, about 400 miles of roads were gone. We were left with about 55-60 miles. That is NOT rallying!

Win that powerball Jens, 'Super Rally, my a$$!

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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RE: NonRally

With the cost of entering an event, the cost of a front running WRC car and the hero status the front runners have I can see the temptation of allowing them to re-enter an event...over there.

For us, I agree with Jens. Allowing someone to finish an event they didn't really finish diminishes the efforts of all who completed the stages. Sure the guy takes a penalty, but he is still competeing with 5,10,20 less hard miles on his equipment. The 5 minute penalty per stage should put that person so far back it doesn't matter anyway. The next evolution of this idea will allow a guy to decide not to run a specific car-breaker stage, get fast time and 5 minutes penalty and then bust everyone's chops on the smooth stages. People can always slow down a touch, drive within their abilities, make the car last and bring back the endurance aspect of previous times (aka "JensRally").

Gene McCullough
Olympus Chief Scrutineer
 

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RE: NonRally

There has been talk here of big teams having 15 crew to rebuild their cars when they off so they can restart the next day.
Maybe, to even things out, we need a limit to the number of crew members, say 3. I think the adverage little guy would have about three, driver, navi and one real crew.
ken
 

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don't cut
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>Most National level events have 2 regional events run
>concurrently with the national. For 2 day events, these
>regionals are typically 1st day and 2nd day while for 1 day
>events like STPR, its usually the morning/afternoon stages and
>then the afternoon/night stages. If a national level
>competitor DNF's in the portion of the rally that is the first
>regional, they typically may enter the 2nd day regional
>through a process specified by the organizer. This way, they
>may run for seat time and or regional points (if elligible)
>without throwing away their entire tow to the event.

>Brad

I gotta agree with Brad here. The national/divisional split works well, why mess with it? About my only compaint, and it's minor, is when they charge you the full late entry fee for the second divisional, even after you've paid a national entry and only run one or two stages. I can see charging a $50 or $100 "stupidy" fee, mainly to remind you that you screwed up, and to cover administration and paperwork, but $350 on top of a full national entry gets a little pricey.

I thought Superally was okay until Seb used it to almost win the 2006 Monte Carlo event. I'm all for keeping the teams running, but I don't like them scoring points against others who bothered to tough out the entire event.


Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
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RE: NonRally

When WRC started the Super rally idea, I hated it - and still do in part.. the devil is in the details right?! and I think that a 5 min WRC penality is not enough.
HOWEVER; After talking to some of those who used SR down in Mexico, I am liking the idea (refer back to the devil part).

AN issue may be the haves vs the havenots right?
- Well that's an issue ANYWAY (Welcome to racing... how fast you wanna go?) If you are going to run an open class, or big $ car, then you best be ready for big $ parts eh?
A number of "$" teams change trannies and everything else now right?
- If you don't allow them to change the block (was once a SCCA rule, yes?) then nothing has changed.
Now think about the guys in P and Gr2 Neon's, VW's etc etc... they can perhaps make do with the junkyard tranny on day two (bless their souls).

IF the penality was "correct" (devil again) say 10 mins PLUS 30sec's per stage mile you did not run... Could could "re-enter" and run for points , worthwhile if you decide this is gonna be YOUR year and you tow to Oregon or Maine or wherever.
Now the question .. Would you be more likely to make a long tow to an event you might not otherwise attend if this were the case?
 

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RE: NonRally

>AN issue may be the haves vs the havenots right?


Maybe it is an issue for some, but not for me. Everything else being equal the haves are going to win 99% of the time. That's life. In the my good ol' days Buffum was going to win, period.

The issue for me is: this SuperRally stuff is NOT rally. Rally is being diluted into some type of other motorsport, but it is not rally. People can keep telling themselves it is rally, but it isn't.
 

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Jct Motorsports &Collision
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RE: NonRally

Jens You are right Buffum sent in the entry fee and they mailed him the trophy. Ran my first rally in May of 1985. I was 20 yrs old this event was also Thumpers first event and JB co drove in a 74 Dodge Colt RWD and Tim O,Neils First event he ran a mid 70's SAAB 99. I hade a 73 Capri that had been Cal Landeau's , Gary Webbs And John Colts. The rally was In Plymouth Vt. The good old Days It was a lot more fun back in those days frt runners and everyone else.We had our own battles going on in the woods.I live in the Burlington VT area and do work for some of the rally team around the area. It has gotten expensive to run that is for sure.But being in collision repair is a good thing in this sport. Chris Putzier
 

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SuperRally, Si!

If not for SuperRally at Corona Mexico, there would have been maybe a half-dozen cars still running at the end of 3 days. This situation would have sucked for fans and teams alike. Our team lost a pile of time by sitting out Saturday (7 stages missed = 35 min penalty), but came back on Sunday for some good battles with other cars in our class. We were in no danger of climbing back into the lead, but were able to salvage some satisfaction out of a bad experience. How is this a bad thing?

The scenario of somebody skipping a car-breaker stage and then cleaning everybody's clocks later due to SuperRally is far fetched. Super Rally is based on legs. You get tagged 5 minutes for each stage you miss per leg. So unless the car-breaker was the last stage of a leg, there would be ZERO ZIP NADA advantage to be gained by this. Even then, 5 minutes is a whole lot of time to make up.

Things change in rally--some good, some not. SuperRally is worth a try, becuse like it or no, "putting on a show" is part of the game these days. Troglodytes need to get over it--there's no going back to the old days and old ways.

Dave G
SuperRally Fan (Who still tries REALLY HARD to finish each and every stage)


"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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RE: SuperRally, Si!

I like the idea of being able to rejoin - but score no points - and not upset the placings of those that do complete all the stages.

If you can fix your car and rejoin - why not?
If no points are scored - how could anyone object?

It would allow for seat time and of course FUN!
 

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RE: SuperRally, Si!

>If not for SuperRally at Corona Mexico, there would have been
>maybe a half-dozen cars still running at the end of 3 days.

That is nonsense! If they didn't have SuperRally people would drive at 9/10ths to keep their cars in the event rather than driving over the edge at 11/10ths.

Do drivers at LeMans drive at AA-fueler or Formula 1 pace? No! Why? Because they have to keep their cars running for 24 hours.

SuperRally is NonRally.
 

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Mä meen vittu sinne!
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RE: SuperRally, Si!

Troglodytes. I like that term.

I would not expect the OG crowd to like Super Rally. But, it gives a better value for the money to National level competitors, is more attractive to spectators, is more attractive to sponsors, etc. So, we have a benefit to spectators, competitors, and sponsors. I can't seem to see what's wrong with that. If you use it you'll love it. If someone else uses it and still beats you you'll hate it. But, if with a 5 minute penalty they still beat you then they're obviously a better driver. Now other things, like ridiculously lengthy service, and short legs are a whole different subject.

Side note: Watching WRC Review 1999 last night. At Portugal for the third leg they said something along the lines of, "but Tommi will be hard pressed to close the gap on McRae with the last leg being short with only 60 km." That's longer than some of the day 2 legs at some US National events.
 

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RE: SuperRally, Si!

>Do drivers at LeMans drive at AA-fueler or Formula 1 pace?
>No! Why? Because they have to keep their cars running for 24
>hours.

They drive at F1 pace. The cars are so strong that they can run flat out for the 24 hours. The competition level requires that they drive flat out for the 24 hours (or at least until the close competitors break or have problems). It isn't like it used to be.

Adrian
 
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