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Big Jump 800
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The PRB keeps saying it needs to pay more attention to ClubRally.

What do you suggest be done? Certainly it would be nice to have MORE ClubRallys, but we need more organizers to do that. Shooting Star seems to have gotten off on the right foot, but one of last year's exciting new ClubRallys, Cadillac, seems to have stumbled this year.

I'd like to hear your ideas. What problems need addressing, how best to address them, and how to get the resources to address the problem.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Club events are the back bone of the sport in my opinion.
What has been lacking is advertizing and public relations.
For instance, get local car dealers involved, local auto clubs as well. They know who to contact and talk to, to make things go smooth.
Law enforcement and DNR could be included, charities and other local clubs like Lions Club and such.
These are the secrets of the European events.
It seems sometimes that we concentrate too much on being spectacular.
It doesn't do any good if we can't target people to come see us.
Rallye will always be a good show for spectators as long as we can be professional.
If we build it, they will come, so to speak.
Again, this is my humble opinion.


Whiplash RallyeSport
 

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J.B.,

Nothing extraordinary. The PRB should just keep an open door, open mind, attentive ear, and be patient and helpful. A lot of bad water has passed under the bridge in recent years. In-fighting is very hard work and takes an emotional toll measurable in years. The demise of ProRally (as it was envisioned), the neglect of ClubRally, lack of support for Organizers....yada,yada... all this has engendered sort of a general malaise and lack of confidence and initiative.

Competitor's are still here ... even if inactive due to risen costs.

Organizer's hold the keys to the future. Help THEM on their terms.

Rich Smith

Vive le "Pro-le-Ralliat"
 

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this may sound a little odd but contact local 4-H programs. they would be a good source of marshalls. they have small engine programs and the kids a really hard workers. and they have kids up to 18 as members.

they would also help foster a stronger bond w/the community.

scouts would work too i suppose.

would also like to see a reasonable version of jake himes' W.A.R.T. (wild ass rally tent) to provide something at the service park.

and i think clubrally events should have a parc expose. i know competitors dont always like them. but they are necessary for the growth of the sport. even though they are "just" club they should get to show off a little.
 

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R5- > L5- NC (don't roll)
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As one of the "inactive due to costs" you may take my opinion for what it's worth...

Rich sums it up quite well. I would add the following:

"Performance Rally" should be the main point... when Divisional versus National went Club versus Pro there were and still remain some ill feelings... There are darned few "real" Pro teams, there are a large number of performance rally teams de-tuned to "club". The cohesion of Pro/Club may fit the rest of SCCA's titles/names, however there remain a number of competitors that would feel better about being elbow to elbow with the "pros" if they were included as the "pros" they really are. Running virtually the same cars, on the same roads, for far less money. Bring back National versus Divisional. Refer to the entire sport as Performance Rally with the only separation being that of who runs the "national" (nation-wide) versus "divisional" calendar. Include a provision for out-of-region events in order to qualify for the Divisional Rally Championship.

Vive le "Pro-le-ralliat"

(edit for spelling)
 

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>The PRB keeps saying it needs to pay more attention to
>ClubRally.
>
>What do you suggest be done?
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

Since I still have about zero experience in an actual clubrally I wont pretend to know what needs improving, other than the obvious like the number of them and keeping costs down.

I do want to thank you for asking here though. Being open is always a good first step to productive change and this site certainly has the audience to generate lots of input...some (OK, much) of it is even helpful.
 

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just another old phart
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My initial thought was whether there was appropriate value received by organizers from SCCA for cost of sanction/insurance/whatever. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse nor implying that the value isn't there but was just looking to educate myself as to what that value is. However, before raising any questions I thought I would read thru the Rules For Organizers. I know that last September Bruce had indicated that they were in the process of being revised but I thought that had been completed and that they were on-line on the SCCA site somewhere. But I have looked thru the Rally and the Garage sections and can't find them. Am I just blind or are they not on-line somewhere?

Kent Gardam

edit: spelling

2nd edit: Well, I did a search here and found the thread discussing the Operations Manual. Ben mentions on 12/23/03 that it will be posted to the SCCA site. http://www.specialstage.com/forum/c...cgi?az=read_count&om=2073&forum=DCForumID2#25

Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Kent
 

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Big Jump 800
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't know where it is posted. I have a copy. At risk of getting flooded with requests, if anyone wants a copy I can e-mail one to them... contact me at jbniday at nidayrallysport dot com.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 

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just another old phart
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Thanks for the offer. You have mail.

Kent Gardam
 

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I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking about how the PRB can get more involved in ClubRally or how we, as an organization, can get more Club events on the schedule?

Assuming you are talking about growing ClubRally, are we focused on the organizers, competitors or both? For organizers, what issues do current organizers have? What has prevented past organizers from putting on their own events? Is there an issue with competitors not attending ClubRally events (and if so, what are the issues? Too few miles? Too high a cost?) or are we still in the mode of "If you put on the event, they will come"?

Aside from surveying the people actually involved in these areas, I would recommend that the SCCA (and I'm being general here because I'm not sure what the PRB's role is supposed to be in all this) look at ways to make organizing a ClubRally more of a no-brainer. Are all the rules for organizers easy to understand and implement? Is there a packet that helps the organizer get road permissions?

From an operational standpoint, a turnkey registration and scoring system would be very helpful. (Yes, JB, we've talked about this before and I still think it is a big issue.)

Now if you really want to make it attractive to organizers, remove thier financial risk. Front them monies to scout roads, get permissions, rent rooms, etc.
 

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Big Jump 800
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Clearly the SCCA can't organize ClubRallys, and they can't create available land.

So, the kind of things I'm looking for is this; IF the PRB/PRD were supporting and contributing to the advancement of ClubRally (meaning whatever you want that to mean, I don't want to limit it to my own ideas) what would that look like?

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

edited to take out personal editorial that didn't serve to advance the topic
 
G

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>So, the kind of things I'm looking for is this; IF the
>PRB/PRD were supporting and contributing to the advancement
>of ClubRally (meaning whatever you want that to mean, I
>don't want to limit it to my own ideas) what would that look
>like?


Is there a mass of incident report information that could be used as a basis to present statistically accurate information to groups wary of permitting road use?

The SCCA, moreso than any other single entity, should have information and facts within it's reports and insurance claims that shows that rallying is generally safe and we don't have cars careening off of mailboxes, other cars, trees, through rivers, etc.

Even facts like "We've sanctioned XX number of rally events in this state since 1983" or whatever could help organizers push through common hurdles.

Track and present costs, with a focus on sanctioning fees and insurance, with an eye towards identifying the causes of increases. Adjust for inflation and other COLA as deemed useful.


If a person assume the SCCA primarily is a sanctioning body, with event insurance and rulemaking as the primary attraction to seeking a sanction with the group, look within those two facets for improvement.

Incident report information goes from the competitors to the SCCA, presumably (and you would certainly know better than I) to allow the actuarial types to earn their keep.

The same types of concerns the insurance providers have are often shared by hosting communities or road use groups, however the organizers may not have access to aggregated data that would be useful in obtaining permits and road use agreements.

I think I repeated myself here-

but does the information that comes in from all the events, from all the organizers, ever get collected and used as a informational tool?
 

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JB, thanks for asking the question....

Twice before this year, 2 regions have tried to put on an event in the National Forests of western VA; the roads are awesome, but the road permitting process is very political due to the strong and growing environmental and hike clubs in the area. We've lost out at the Forest permit process both times.

We need to break this in our favor. What I would ask is this:
Please throw SCCA support behind the effort to get the WVa rally through the permit process in the Monongahela Nat'l Forest. That forest is tied in with the Jefferson and Washington Nat'l forests, and if this goes forward there, it will help us in trying to get access to the other 2 Forests.

Now, I am fully aware of the somewhat hard feelings that have occured in the past with the SCCA and the non-NASA orgainzers. But, I'll be quite frank that I consider the prior SCCA rally leader to have been most responsible for this situation. As a 24 year SCCA member, I want my club to takes some steps to set these things in the past and help out this situation. To me, this is a perfect opportunity to improve this situation, and to help Club Rally in the east where we are really short on events.

The comment period for the Rally WVa permit process closes, on July 10 (I think; please check the posting on this conference). This should give SCCA and the PRB time to help.

Again, thanks for asking,
Mark Bowers
 

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JB,
Thanks for asking. It's a tough question but I have a few ideas.

1) Keep supporting the ClubRally National Championship. In my opinion, the tow fund is a good thing and visibility in Sports Car Magazine is a positive. Perhaps see about having a centralized pointskeeping system for ClubRally.

2) If/when possible, encourage contingency support at the ClubRally level. Some companies (like Mazda) have been very open to the idea in the past.

3) Try to reduce the burden of escalating car construction costs and confusion related to car preparation. Roll cages might be a good place to start. PGT computer changes & anti-lag would be a good 2nd point to tackle.

Dave
Car # 207
 

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JB,

Seems to me that the #1 thing ClubRally needs from the PRB is the lowest possible costs in every area the PRB can affect. This goes beyond just entry/sanction fees. Think about things like license fees (could Pros pay more and Club less?), visual pkgs. optional for Club (or no charge to Club-only lic. holders?). Think real hard before making any changes that increase cost to ClubRally. If I was looking at getting started now (instead of 4 years ago), I would decide not to do it, due to the cost. I know of lots of LOL Region and CENDIVers who have either gotten out completely or now run very few events due to cost.

#2 thing is rules stability. Many ClubRallists cannot afford the time and money to make big changes to their cars (or heaven forbid, have rule changes make the entire car illegal or uncompetitive). I've talked to lots of folks who are too nervous to jump in becuase "who knows what rules will change two years from now". Just look at what is being considered just for next year (HANS, fire system, restrictor changes, RallyTruck elimination, etc.). Imagine if these changes all become mandatory in 2006. Yikes. I keep Rallying because the cost to upgrade each year has been tollerable, barely.

I still think a mentor program would help newbies (would have helped me). Especially if they could be coached before their first event with stuff like buying/building their first car, what stuff they can do without for their first event, etc.

Jim Cox
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What the PRB has been doing over the last year is close to perfection. Focus on the organizer groups and keep the rules stable while clarifying language. Don't merge G2/G5/P. Major changes to the classes and the rules are just public image make-work, it doesn't actually help anything. The important work is developing skills in the Topeka organization, being supportive of events, refining the PR, and maybe (if there are spare CPU cycles left) the merchandising. The support Sue and the PRB have given over the last little bit has been great.

andy
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Viva la ProleRalliat!
 

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Also do not forget the ClubRally stewards which are working hard to build the ClubRally program in each division. This is just one of their many responsibilties. They would like feed back as well from their regional competitors and organizers to enhance their prospective areas.
We have already a sponsor to help out with some cash prizes for the SoPac region for 2004 and expand on it more for 2005. Hopefully, more sponsors we get to help out even the organizers in the future. These are just some of our goals. Pat and I pull up our sleeves and do as much as we can at each SoPac event to help out the organizer.

I know that other ClubRally stewards are doing the same. Give them some tips as well and/or to Mike Hurst the ClubRally series manager.


Denise McMahon
 

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To follow what Denise said, the PRB should get a lot of their ClubRally advice from the ClubRally Stewards. They're in direct contact with organizers and competitors...many more than Special Stage or SportsCar actually reach. Many folks won't write even an email, but will bend the Steward's ear at great length over a beer or nine after an event.

Bruce
 

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Basically, what is required for Club rallies is STABILITY in all aspects. Don't make changes just for the sake of change.
 

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Big Jump 800
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Jim,
When I read your 1st issue this thought comes to mind; the real costs of rally are the car, service vehicle, trailer, parts, hotel, more parts... not the license, stickers or entry fee.

As for your second issue. I couldn't agree more! I'm for all the stability we can have... balanced with progress on safety issues. I think you'll find most advances in the area of safety will initially be "strongly recommended" until better test information becomes available. On the other hand, if someone has to drop out because they can't afford proper safety equipment, I wonder if that person is making sound decisions.

Jim DID NOT suggest this, but it is one of my pet peeves... If the engineers who study such things tell us that the belts should be replaced every two years, then I'm inclinded to think they know what they're talking about no matter how much the belts look just fine to me! Another bit of mistaken thinking in this area is those who say, "Fine do that to ProRally because they can afford it, but not to ClubRally"... are these people really seriously suggesting that the ClubRally guys don't need to be as safe the the ProRally guys? I can't find the logic in that one.

Anyway... all that aside, I'm in favor of rules stability!

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 
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