You might get more traction with this point if you limited your exclusions to SF 250 and the IV250. The NORRA events are unquestioned Stage Rallies with special stages, transits, penalties, etc....
North America Rally Map
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meh. taking a look at the entry list looks a lot like a desert race with chase support vehicles. http://www.norra.com/vehicle-entries.php
I don't know any west coast rally competitors that participate in these. Yes, Ned Bacon (!) raced a vintage 911. But I daresay, that isn't stage rally as we know it.
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History has shown that more should get added to the calendar as the year goes on. Perryville, for instance isn't on there but I'm sure we'll do it again. MN group always has things in the works, as do guys in WI, OH, MI, TX, etc. Hopefully a few of them happen like Nemadji.
Three "pure" rally entries so far. Myself, a guy from Idaho with his rally truck and a Subaru from Canada. And are we now defining "rallies" by the type of vehicle involved? So NASA events aren't "rallies" because they allow UTVs and motorcycles? If I show up at a Rally America event with a open class Ford Raptor, does that make it not a "rally"? This is the type of thinking that KILLS stage rally...
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Again, please describe what a stage rally is. You just keep saying "that's not a rally".
I don't know that one can legitimately say "well, none of the people I know go there, so it's not a rally".
I've been to the NORRA rally, multiple times. The HQ hotel has a bunch of racers staying there, pulling their race cars in on open trailers, and working on their stuff last minute in the parking lot. That sounds familiar. At registration, lots of people who don't know exactly where to go or what the schedule is or what time the driver's meeting is. That sounds familiar. At tech, a big line of cars and bikes with everyone getting their suits out. That sounds familiar. At the novice meeting, a lot of people worried about how to do timing math. That sounds familiar. At the start, a published start order list with everyone leaving on a minute interval. That sounds familiar. Road books with tulips and mileages. That sounds familiar. Pulling up to the start, getting your time marked on your time card and the log, and then getting counted down to the top of the minute to start racing. That sounds familiar. At the end of the stage, looking at your time card for the allowed transit time, and figuring out when you're due to check in. That sounds familiar. At the next section, waiting outside the control until it's your time, then pulling in. That sounds familiar. Running multiple stages each day, with transits in between. That sounds familiar. At the end of the day, turning in your time card. That sounds familiar. Overnight, a reseed based on your speed. That sounds familiar. The winner determined by the lowest overall sum of stage times (plus penalties). That sounds familiar. For years they've using the same rally scoring software used by the entire Atlantic Rally Cup, with results being published in exactly the same format. That looks familiar.
If your beef is that trucks run there... are you going to tell Bill Holmes that he isn't rallying? Are you going to tell me, or Mad Mike, that our years running in the SCCA RallyTruck class wasn't rallying? Or is it the rougher desert surface? So then Rally Tennessee and Empire State Performance Rally aren't rallies because they are tarmac and not smooth gravel? Or is it motorcycles, so Dakar isn't a rally?
Are some things different? Sure. The services are more like optional remote services. The check in time calculations sort of have a optional service window built in to them. The stages are way longer. The rally is four days instead of two. Finding parallels to these at rallies that use only cars on only smooth gravel with only short stages would be pretty easy.
So I await your definition of rally. I still don't understand what are the fundamental characteristics of a rally you believe that the NORRA events don't provide.
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Great map/resource, Simon!
The way I see it, different folks might duplicate some effort/work, but sometimes the method/style/"voice" of the communication of the info benefits one person versus another. Sometimes the timing of an effort will not aid someone, but later efforts by another do. Other rationales exist - ad nauseum. Since I just got my NEXUS card approval (interview) yesterday, the realm of Canadian rallies opens up for me. Since I have only the most rudimentary level of knowledge about CARS national and regionals, the timing of Simon's effort is great for me! Thanks again!
The way I see it, different folks might duplicate some effort/work, but sometimes the method/style/"voice" of the communication of the info benefits one person versus another. Sometimes the timing of an effort will not aid someone, but later efforts by another do. Other rationales exist - ad nauseum. Since I just got my NEXUS card approval (interview) yesterday, the realm of Canadian rallies opens up for me. Since I have only the most rudimentary level of knowledge about CARS national and regionals, the timing of Simon's effort is great for me! Thanks again!
Dave-
You will absolutely love the NEXUS card. First time I went across with Jeffy (after he got his), Customs said "James and Geoffry?" We said "Yes." She said "Have a nice day." That was it. After we left the booth, Jeffy laughed and said "That was worth the $50 right there.". I have also been through where they don't even open the glass...
You will also learn a lot working Canadian events (although never use the word working at Customs - you are taking "work" away from a Canadian - you are going to watch the rally). Callsigns are different though. And I say "sports car rally". "Rally" by itself has some other connotations, and might get you "invited" inside. You do NOT want to get invited inside!
You will absolutely love the NEXUS card. First time I went across with Jeffy (after he got his), Customs said "James and Geoffry?" We said "Yes." She said "Have a nice day." That was it. After we left the booth, Jeffy laughed and said "That was worth the $50 right there.". I have also been through where they don't even open the glass...
You will also learn a lot working Canadian events (although never use the word working at Customs - you are taking "work" away from a Canadian - you are going to watch the rally). Callsigns are different though. And I say "sports car rally". "Rally" by itself has some other connotations, and might get you "invited" inside. You do NOT want to get invited inside!
press on,
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Thankfully, Kent Gardam warned me about not mentioning "work". The word "rally" does have some connotations that are not helpful when talking to someone unfamiliar with the sport. Someone once asked if I was raising money/awareness for cancer treatment research when they saw my "Rally America" windshield banner!
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Map
Nice work! Thanks!
Nice to see the Ledwedge on there.
Nice work! Thanks!
Nice to see the Ledwedge on there.
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570 Posts
Thanks for the updates, Simon!
This article on Car Throttle -- https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-trials-and-tribulations-of-being-a-rally-fan-in-america/ has stirred up some interest from folks who had no idea that rally existed in North America! Consequently, you map has been a GREAT resource to refer them to!
See you in the woods in 2016 - hopefully!
This article on Car Throttle -- https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-trials-and-tribulations-of-being-a-rally-fan-in-america/ has stirred up some interest from folks who had no idea that rally existed in North America! Consequently, you map has been a GREAT resource to refer them to!
See you in the woods in 2016 - hopefully!
Mendocino Rally, and Frazier Mountain Rally? Mendocino may not have confirmed a date yet, and Frazier Mountain only has a date and no other info, but hopefully that'll be coming soon... CRS homepage has Mendocino's date from last year, just with the year changed. "Independent" events in Arizona: Desert Storm rally and Arizona extreme rally (if they confirm dates, I don't blame you for not including these right now). I believe Nemadji Trail rally is coming back again this year, it was highly successful in 2015 (also not confirmed date so I don't blame the lack of inclusion).
Thanks for putting this together every year, it really is a help when looking for events!
-Ryan
Thanks for putting this together every year, it really is a help when looking for events!
-Ryan
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It appears so! (and it's now April 2021)
NOTE: High Desert Trails, Ridgecrest, CA, [CRS & NASA Rallysport] has been canceled, apparently forever)...
That's always sad to see any event be taken off the calendar permanently
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