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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now is the time to get the grit back in the sport.

before this panty wearing rally series forces everyone to run paved stages and air conditioning, let's bring back the aura of driving at night.

Sure, maybe Sno Drift will see a little darkness, but how bout the rest of ya?

Drivers, what is your opinion on this? There is plenty of time to get yer photos taken for Vanity magazine with the daylight stages, but how bout weedin out the boys and gettin it on in the dark?
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Strong words there...

I don't think anyone is against night time rallying, except maybe some of the local residence.
A lot of rallyes in the US are run into the night. Actually, we ran quicker in the dark than daylight.
But,.. maybe you should consider the spectators as well. It's not much fun watching a set of lights go by. On the other hand... who is going to pay if you want the spectator points to be illuminated?

Rallye has evolved. Safety issues have to be considered. Now here is where it gets difficult, but, that's a different subject.

Question to you.. "You want to keep this sport a private society?"

Whiplash RallyeSport
 

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<But,.. maybe you should consider the spectators as well. It's not much fun watching a set of lights go by. On the other hand... who is going to pay if you want the spectator points to be illuminated?>


Tell that to the fans at Tall Pines, there were more in the night stages and they sounded like they were having a good time!

I like the night!!
 

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You must not get to many rallies

Sno Drift has night stages
LSPR has night stages
Ojibwe,more than half the rally was at night
STPR is half and half
Rim of the World, day one is at night

Did I miss any others?

There certainly is no shortage of night stages, so I don't know where you are getting this idea that we need more

Besides most rallies don't seem to have a choice (so I have been told) as to when they run the stages, as it is dictated by the landowners

I like to watch a night stage here and there, and I think there should be night stages, but it sucks big time when half the rally or more is at night, especially if you have a job to do like filming or photographing it

And actually there is not a lot of time to get your photo taken for "vanity magazine" during the day, especially if you wreck the night before
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Shenadoah Stages

I was denied access by the NFS to roads for an event I hoped to organize. The reason the NFS gave that denied the access was that the area is heavily used and they felt the roads should not be closed.

I've thought about resubmitting the road use proposal asking to get access to the roads afterdark.

How many competitors would be willing to participate in a midnight rally if the roads are very excellent?
 

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RE: Shenadoah Stages

You were denied access for ONE day?
 

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Faster Mabricator
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RE: Shenadoah Stages

>You were denied access for ONE day?

Hardly. The proposal broke down how many hours each road would be required, so I wasn't asking for an entire day.
 

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Morgan--I think the original poster is confusing Pro-Rally with WRC.

WRC is the rally series with little or no night stages anymore.
 

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don't cut
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Night racing sucks. It really sucks without notes. And it really, really sucks without HID's. Night racing takes more equipment, more experience, and more cajones. To those concerned about the increasing costs and competition in rally racing, night racing increases the delta between the haves and the have nots.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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Shifting and drifting
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502 Posts
>Night racing sucks. It really sucks without notes. And it
>really, really sucks without HID's. Night racing takes more
>equipment, more experience, and more cajones. To those
>concerned about the increasing costs and competition in
>rally racing, night racing increases the delta between the
>haves and the have nots.
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845

Disagree. When I was a lad, more time was made up on the night stages, mainly due to drivers that were unable to adapt to the night conditions, which by the way, were driven without notes. Personally, I looked forward to getting past that difficult (my inability to adapt)dusk 30 minute window and getting on with the task. No HID's either, just the proper light setup and aim. No big deal, just used what suited me with the switching set-up per my preferences. Sometimes we drove with our lights OFF, and passed cars too!!! True story.

So more equipment, yes, a good set of lamps is cheaper than a fancy engine management system or whatever, but eventually is a faster medium. More experience? Isn't this what sport is all about, learning and gaining experience as we go, and APPLYING that experience? You think notes didn't require experience? And that is more expensive, especially hiring a professional co driver with experience to do the job, let alone practicing learning to drive and listen at the same time!!!!:)

And the comment about cajones, again, what is rallying? It is the motorsport that DOES REQUIRE the biggest cajones, or whatever.

Safety-wise, night is not an issue. Oncoming traffic, if the unforseeable happens, is easier to spot, there is more focus on the ROAD, and less on the surrounding, value contrast is greater at night, and if someone goes off, triangles and lights are easier to spot as well.
 

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Left seat and not British!
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Your co-driver humbly disagrees also......night racing is probably safer than day for all the reasons mentioned in the other posts plus with proper lighting (PROPER lighting) you get to see only what you need to see to be successful....the extraneous visual data goes away....

So...is there something you want to tell me about your night driving? Besides I need to just get MUCH better with the notes?:)

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.
 

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www.christianedstrom.com
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>Safety-wise, night is not an issue. Oncoming traffic, if
>the unforseeable happens, is easier to spot, there is more
>focus on the ROAD, and less on the surrounding, value
>contrast is greater at night, and if someone goes off,
>triangles and lights are easier to spot as well.

Au contraire.

If someone goes off at night, especially if they go a bit off the road and is unable to get out of the car to display triangles, the likelihood of seeing them/finding them quickly is less than in the daytime.

Night or day, I don't care from a competition standpoint, but to say night racing is _safer_ is a non-starter.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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For many years, night rallying was the preferred form of SCCA stage rallying. It was preferred/mandated for safety reasons following the deaths of the New Zealanders (Woolfe/Whittiker).

The theory was that if unauthorized traffic got onto a stage, you would avoid tragic head-on collisions easier at night because you could see light coming at you.

I am not sure when this rule was abandoned.
 

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Big Jump 800
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I'm with Dennis. I used to like night stages, but not as much anymore. I do tend to focus more, but I know I can't see as well at night (even w/ HID's). It tends to be colder both at service and when I end up on the side of the road.

There are certainly stages at events that are well spectated at night, but "come stand in the dark and watch bright headlights go by" doesn't seem to be a useful advertising slogan.

I can't think of any U.S. ProRallys or CenDiv ClubRallys that have decreased their night stages over the past 5 years. Is the writer thinking of the WRC?

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 

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don't cut
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>
>So...is there something you want to tell me about your night
>driving? Besides I need to just get MUCH better with the
>notes?:)
>
>Kim DeMotte
>Official Old Fart, etc.

Kim, you know I don't like night stages, especially if they are dusty or snowy. I think it's more of psycological thing. I don't see as well at night, so I think I'm not as good. In reality, I'm just as good at night as in the day, but I still don't like it. Some people enjoy night racing, and some are better at it then day racing. Hooray for you!

I still stand by my original post that night racing increases the difference between the top and the bottom. My light pod retails for over $1500 (thank you CATZ HID for sponsoring me!), and that ain't cheap. And believe me, HID's are a heck of an advantage. Crews with more note experience will have an easier time trusting the notes at night.

I don't think night stages should be eliminated, becuz they are still fun and unique to the sport. I just don't wanna see them increased.

And don't get me started on the entire spectator/sponsor/exposure issue at night....... Ask Major Greg, a big time ProRally indepentant team sponsor what he thinks about the value of night racing.


Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

Ps. Kim, don't sell yourself short. You've gotten MUCH better with notes. I need to get MUCH better on 3 rights!
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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>...but "come stand in the dark and watch bright
>headlights go by" doesn't seem to be a useful advertising
>slogan.

Um ... that's like a steak house using the slogan 'come chew on a slab of dead cow.'
 

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I'll jump in with a "I like night stages"


I find it easier to read the road, you tend to get a clearer definition of the tree line.

But then again I also like that aspect of Rallying -- reading the road.

Stage notes changes that persepective, although you still need to read the road it comes in a different sequence and time frame. It used to be a significant advantage to know how to read the road and stay concentrated on the farthest possible visual cues. Now it seems I spend more time on what is closer to me - surface changes and ruts, because I generally or maybe pretty specifically know what the road is doing up ahead.

I am no expert, but it would seem someone really good at using the notes would not care if it is night or day, a 3 is a 3 is a 3, lighting should become less of a factor...

Still learning and without nearly enough seat time,
Mike
 
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