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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lots of posts on wanting to slow down newbies. No consensus on how to do it. Most suggestions have been indirect fixes (such as take away HP). Seem like what we really want is lower speeds, so why not look for solutions that do exactly that. How about this for an idea:

Use the remote GPS speed monitoring technology the trucking companies and rental car companies use (to check the speeds that their vehicles travel). This will tell you the speed a car is traveling in real time. Newbies could then be given speed limits with penalties assessed for "speeding". If the speed was really bad, the steward could radio a control to yank their score card immediately.

If you wanted to get even more aggressive, you could combine this with a remote engine kill device that gives a steward the ability to shut the speeder down.

This could also be used on all competitors if you felt it needed to. It wouldn't take competitors long to figure out their gearing and set their rev limiters for whatever speed was allowed as max.

It would bascially limit the racing to the twisty parts of the course without having to place lots of new start and finish controls evey place there was a scary straight section. Our dirt bike enduros sort of work this way, except you have a target of 24 MPH, so when you're on a road, you just putt-putt, but when you get into the single track, no one can average 24, so it turns onto a race to determine who is fastest in the woods.

Jim Cox
#558
 

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Well that can act as a 'kill switch' of sorts. If the driver is just a real dangerous maniac (the type we would all like to get under control), and won't listen to reason, a codriver should just get out of the car at the next control.

Mark B.
 

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>If you wanted to get even more aggressive, you could combine
>this with a remote engine kill device that gives a steward
>the ability to shut the speeder down.

>
>Jim Cox
>#558


Jim, do you really think it would be safe to kill someones engine by remote when you can't see exactly what they are doing at that moment?
I would think that could be more dangerous. What if they were sliding thru some tight turns and all the sudden no powersteering, no power to the wheels while heading towards a tree/rock. Might actually cause more accidents!

Rob
 

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Indeed, shutting somebody down without knowing EXACTLY what the position of the car was, it's yaw, and it's general direction on the road, the organizer or the steward may very well do GREAT harm.
I feel that in one of the other threads, there is a better "general idea" festering itself toward the idea of mixing inexperienced drivers with experienced co-drivers and vice versa.
 

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I have the perfect idea! Lets just attach a boat anchor with a chain to the rear bumper that ought to slow them down! In all seriousness we really need to stop painting new drivers iwth a broad brush, there are new people that have never rallied and there are new people htat have never done anything. I think that it is unfair to lump these two groups together. The only real way to get everyone a fair shake is to require a rally school and the driver (new or old) would be required to ass an assesment by an instructor. The instructor must be qualified and not just any tom dick or hank from the local region that has been rallying for twenty years. I could paint ofr twenty years and still never be able to paint the mona lisa with a paint by numbers set. What i am trying to say is that just because you have experience does not mean that you know what you are doing. If you practice something incorrectly for al ong itme you may be worse then people starting out. I think a school for everyone is what we need and the instructor makes the decision. For people with experience they may improve from the instruction and the new people will probably save themselves some bills for a wrecked car. THis way it is not hte old people getting away with everything and new people having to pay their pound of flesh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
>
>>If you wanted to get even more aggressive, you could combine
>>this with a remote engine kill device that gives a steward
>>the ability to shut the speeder down.
>
>>
>>Jim Cox
>>#558
>
>
>Jim, do you really think it would be safe to kill someones
>engine by remote when you can't see exactly what they are
>doing at that moment?

No I don't think it would be safe. The idea was just the result of a late night brainstroming process. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the remote kill feature. I just thought that since this whole big topic is mostly about making insurance companies more comfortable that we can reduce and control speeds, they might be really happy to see such a capability (even though we would never intend to let things to get so out of control that we'd have to use it). Think of it like the ability to blow up Russia in the cold war, it was kind of nuts, but some people felt better knowing we could do it if we felt the need. ;)

Jim Cox
#558


>I would think that could be more dangerous. What if they
>were sliding thru some tight turns and all the sudden no
>powersteering, no power to the wheels while heading towards
>a tree/rock. Might actually cause more accidents!
>
>Rob
 

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Remote kill switches, in any case, would have to be removed for every transit on a open highway as well. I doubt it would be considered responcible by local or state authorities.

As for speed limits, wouldn't that end up making every rally a TSD?
Maybe "newbies" should only be allowed in TSD's. After all it would be safer and would have a varifiable track record, as the police would investigate all accidents on public roads. Hey, then everyone would just need standard liability and we would be covered. And it would be cheaper. And all "newbies" would be forced to paint there cars bright yellow, wait a second.... someone's already taken that idea.
 

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my lst rally in the '70's was the Mendocino Forrest Perfect time rally. A perfect time was assigned for each stage and if you were under that time, that was your score. If you were faster than that assigned time, that was your penalty.
We were in a bone stock 510 with no driving lights and it was at night. Needless to say, we finished some place close to dead last.
Fun tho. Seems like you do this for beginners during a
regular rally.
ken
 

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How about getting people to take responsibility for their own actions - thus eliminating the need for any of this - I know - impossible.

As a newbie driver this year - I started in a P4 AWD turbo car - and would not even have become involved in Rally if I had been forced into anythig less. I wanted to be in a turbo awd car - so I am - if I had been forced into a G2 of lower type car - I would have not become involved.

That said - I am 39 years old and understand that I will never beat Pat. I just wanted to get into the sport for the fun aspect. I went at this season (and will next as well) with the attitude and goal of finishing every rally I enter - so far I am 4 for 4 in that goal - plus I have learned a lot - and am having a blast.

I think the key to all of this is EDUCATION. I took a 2 day school before I ever drove a stage km and it was the best money spent.
Skip the limiting of car class and educate everone in a school - if you must.

Just my 2¢
WRC
 

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RE: Newbie speed limiter idea, boat anchor

I think all seed 5,6,7,8, and 9 drivers should be required to complete at least 2 full seasons on a tricycle with outriggers. If the first season is completed without incident, the outriggers will be removed for the second season. This way, spectators will be safer and drivers will develope skills in the process-some sort of driveline resistance or lung inlet restrictor would probably a good idea to keep speeds safe.
 

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RE: Newbie speed limiter idea, boat anchor

one word Yugo......
how about the sanctioning body give each rookie five minutes of time before and after he starts a stage and have him get a life insurance policy that pays to the sanctioning body.... stop trying to slow things down and protect ppl from theirselves... it just gives ppl a false sense of security so when they do crash they want to sue the sanctioning body for not hitting them over the head till it was clear that getting into a small car and driving fast anywhere can be life threating. So is getting up in the morning. Stay in bed and eat organic vegteables and drink water and you'll be fine.
 

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RE: Newbie speed limiter idea, boat anchor

Before any rules are made "newbie" needs to be defined.
New to rally can be accomplished with a 30 min class. Maybe an experienced team mate.
New to racing...it's tough to control exuberance and the red mist. again maybe an experienced team mate. How about an off switch on the co-drivers side.
New to gravel...this is the hard one. There is nothing better than seat time, especially in gravel or snow. It is just so variable.

When I started my first rally in 73 (am I sounding like JV here) I was as green as anyone can be. Had seen one rally and never been to any real race. I probably had more gravel miles under my belt than any other 5 competitors. I had just finished with Vietnam and didn't have a misting problem. I had been driving for 13 years at that point, probably 80% on gravel (4 yrs USFS up to 100 miles a day)
My point being, if I were in the same situation today, I would be looking to buy a WRX or such to go rally. Would I be more dangerous than an "experienced" rally driver with 5 events who only drives gravel on rally time?

With all that said I would be in favor of a qualifing or stepping stone system for new drivers, but as I see it there isn't one. It's into the deep end with ya'. I am not in favor of restricting what car someone drives.

What about rev limiters? Say 10-15 stages or 150 miles of stages with a 4000rpm rev limiter. Then get signed off by tech. 5000 for another 100 miles...signed off and your good to go?
Cheap...easy to check.

RCF
 
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