[Jay]

Shamelessly stealing Lurch's link from John V.'s thread, www.theedgeusa.net/buggies_piranha.htm
The topic was introducing some form of kart to feed into rallying, so the kids can start young. I say "kids schmids, lemme get in on this!"
Why I wanna rally. #1. Go sideways, fast, in the woods. #2. see #1. I can't really afford to spend the bucks to build and maintain a rallycar. I still haven't finished repairing all the damage from Doo *** back in March and I didn't even really hurt the car all that badly. I was thinking rather than trying to keep an Open AWD car going, that some cheap Gp5 car would be the way to go. But I don't think there's any such thing as a cheap rallycar. OK, the spec Metros are pretty inexpensive but, well, I wanna go fast, and sideways...If we could get a spec class of buggy or kart or whatever, based on f'r'instance what the above link describes, I would be all over it. OK, no codriver, but look at all the advantages... roll it, who cares, get out and right it yourself and keep going. No big bucks spent on replacing body panels and roofs and such. Easy to see if something is broken, and easy to get at all those parts. You can use powerplants and drivetrains that were *designed* for the sort of abuse that rallying doles out, instead of hoping that the street-based parts in your rallycar will last the whole event. And I daresay that 700 lb and 100 or so hp would keep any of us well entertained and very very busy...I hereby propose that we make this spec class and wanna see if anyone else thinks this is a good idea.

 

[Morgan]

Those look like good fun!




Mark Higgins told me his Yamaha Raptor 4 wheeler is the closest thing to a WRC car one could buy
They actually ran it against a Group N Subaru and the ATV was faster
Here is the story
http://www.hpi-europe.com/yamaha.html

 

[Jay]

That's what I'm talking about, almost. I wanna sit in it not on it, and I want a cage, and a steering wheel. But it demostrates the point. You don't need to spend great stinking wads of money to go fast in the dirt.

 

[Morgan]

I was just investigating that link, looks way more fun than a quad and can you imagine the sound of those in the woods? 10-12,000 rpm with a sport exhaust and sequential shifting, whoa! Can you say F1 in the woods? just thinking about it brings tears to my eyes:9

http://www.theedgeusa.net/images/customerbuggies/Rusty_Littleton_Piranha.jpg

 

[Lurch]

The trailriders on the board know that you can take a dirt bike and ride on trails without speed limits and...well...rally. For free.

In Michigan, we have thousands of miles of legal singletrack dirt bike trails thanks to the CCC (Cycle Conservation Club) of MI and they work hand in hand with the DNR to relocate trails near sensitive areas, etc.

There are around (I believe) 700 miles of ORV "Routes" that are wider than the "Trails" and are totally legal for these things...but they are 2-way trails and you must drive with a bit of caution on those blind crests and turns...which they are all blind.

The grant for ORV activities...including educational...for 2003 is over $1.3 million thanks to the enthusiasts and the money we bring to the small town economies in the north.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10365_15070-38330--,00.html

Then there's Silver Lake. Whoa, mama!

ps...of the 46+ trails listed on the map, I remember riding at least 24 of them. Some of them a dozen times or more. I healed better back then.

Lurch

 

[grinner323]

Where does the Co-Driver sit?

Philip J. Boer
[email protected]

 

[Morgan]

You can get an automated co-driver, Stig Blomqvist used one last year at Pikes Peak. No idea how it works though but I think it is similiar to how the course notes machine works

 

[Lurch]

The CCC site is a good place to find out about land use issues as well. Something that affects us, too.

http://www.cycleconservationclub.org/

 

[Audi UrQ]

Hi,

I think what you are describing may already exist in some of the desert / off-road racing classes. They have many buggy classes e.g. class 1, class 10 etc. encompassing both single & dual seater buggies. I'm not familiar with the actual specs / requirements of each class, so not sure if there is a cheap spec / entry-level buggy class that offers what you are looking for.

Unfortunately, whether you are interested in cheap off-road racing, or cheap rallying, either way it is pretty much an oxymoron. While some of their costs may be lower e.g. car-style body panels, windscreens etc. not required, a lot of the other costs are the same / similar with respect to engine, drivetrain, supsension, tires, fuel, towing vehicle, towing fuel, hotel costs, entry fees, time off-work etc.

Though I dig rallying, the one thing that appeals to me about off-road racing is the endurance aspect of it, and the lack of transits and waiting around to start stages etc. - I sometimes find the waiting to start stages, and driving transits that doesn't count towards your actual finish time a little boring. I kinda like the idea of : okay, you gotta drive 250/500/1000 miles, start now, we'll stop the clock when you finish = more timed driving time = more time in the seat to improve skills, less waiting around etc.

I think, in the end, you just have to try and find a form of racing, sanctioning body (oops), and class you are passionate about that fits your budget, and go for it !!!

HTH.

 

[Rally254]

The Quad that Mark has is a Raptor, but the "works" bikes are 350cc twin two-stoke bikes. In stock form the Banshee( their "works" bike)
makes roughly 48hp, but with very little mods it can be pumped up to 90 plus!! in a 400lb machine. Granted the Raptor is fast( I have owned one for almost 3 years), but their "works" bikes are unbelievably fast. I have personaly witnessed a slightly moded Banshee kill a nitros powered V8 jeep in a drag race. I am not doubting Mark's statement as to the abilties of the Raptor, I just wish that they would be more honest with their staements. Sorry for my rant:'( .


Doug Dreith
Car#254
PGT Impreza 1.8l AWD

 

[Morgan]

"The Quad that Mark has is a Raptor, but the "works" bikes are 350cc twin two-stoke bikes. In stock form the Banshee( their "works" bike)
makes roughly 48hp, but with very little mods it can be pumped up to 90 plus!! in a 400lb machine. Granted the Raptor is fast( I have owned one for almost 3 years), but their "works" bikes are unbelievably fast. I have personaly witnessed a slightly moded Banshee kill a nitros powered V8 jeep in a drag race. I am not doubting Mark's statement as to the abilties of the Raptor, I just wish that they would be more honest with their staements. Sorry for my rant"[/i]

-----------------------------------------------------------


Actually, according to the story, the stock quad was the fastest on the course.

"It didn?t really come as a surprise really that the ?Works? Quad bikes beat Mark in his rally car as the track was a little on the tight side, but what was the surprise was the standard Raptor?s actually beat the times set by the Works Quad bikes, maybe the boys needed to work on their set up?s a little longer, but at the end of the day the timing clock doesn?t lie.
Mark Higgins (Group N Spec Subaru) 57.12 Seconds Fastest Lap
Paul Windrow (Works Quad Bike) 55.30 Seconds Fastest Lap
Justin Reid (Works Quad Bike) 51.83 Seconds Fastest Lap
Paul Roland (Works Quad Bike) 53.16 Seconds Fastest Lap
Paul Windrow (Standard 660R Raptor) 51.34 Seconds Fastest Lap "

When I talked with Mark about it last year he was refering to his personal Raptor which was given to him in trade for doing a national ad campaign, At the time, if I recall correctly, his was stock with exception of an exhaust and the wide suspension kit he added himself.

 

[Rally254]

Wow I'm impressed! Sorry I didnt read the whole article and was only going by my personal experience. That is really impressive that Mark's bike did so well with s little mods. The A-arm/wideningt kit dramatically improves the handeling of the bike, while the exhaust gives a much more usable power curve( depending on which system he installed). Again I didnt mean to offend anyone or sound cocky. I still feel pretty cool to have the same bike that Mark has:7

Doug Dreith
Car#254
PGT Impreza 1.8l AWD

 

[JD Ackley]

This is one of the brightest ideas I have seen yet for a good time plain and simple. Drive. Fast.
The only problem is who to race with? Organizing is always the snagging point. Find a private ORV club and run with that maybe? Is there 10 guys in the NY/PA/NJ to pull this off? I wanna play! But nothing in the North East exist....yet!:7

 

[Ascona73]

Doesn't the Rausch Creek Racing facility also have a ridiculous amount of ORV trails already? Seems like an ideal situation.

 

[Gorgo]

I like it too but I think I'm going to stick with the social aspect of dual-sport motorcycling for a while. I went on a ride a couple of weeks ago in Hancock, NY (about 45 minutes east of Binghamton, NY). It was quite the ride, followed an ISDE qualifier. If an ISDE compared to a dual-sport is kinda' like a WRC event compared to a social drive through the woods, then an ISDE qualifier is more like a ClubRally. The great thing was that we were on all private lands for the trails. All the people who allowed us to use their land were named and thanked on the back of the t-shirts.

Now, if we could find some farmers that were in close proximity to each other that would allow us to use their fields in the fall after the harvest, perhaps we could put together a stage quad-cross that could take a day to do. If we could find a farmer with a couple hundred acres we could have one heck of a course.

I don't know if anyone remembers them or not but years ago Honda made these things called Odysseys and Pilots (and I'm not talkin' mini-vans and SUVs). Some aftermarket companies actually made replacement chassis for them along with long-travel suspensions, hp kits, seats, you name it. If we could find some of them and got them out to some rally-xs then perhaps we would have something to start with. The vehicles in rally-x don't have to be street-legal if the rally-x is on private land (my car wasn't registered when I won the rally O2 class last year locally). Anyway, the Odysseys and Pilots were made about 20 years ago I think. It's worth investigating. I also like the idea of the desert racing classes. Heck, didn't the Baja 1000 start out as a stage rally?

George Thompson
1982 Volvo 242 Performance Rally Toy (still under repair)
1995 Honda XR600R Dual-Sport Motorcycle (MUCH cheaper than rallying SCCA-style!)

 

[Lurch]

I would not consider ISDE Qualifiers on par with ClubRally...maybe ProRally. The name means exactly what it implies. It is the competition that is used to pick the USA team for the International Six Days Enduro. The last one I went to one in Rose City (you know, on the way to SnoDrift with the "MOTEL" with the backwards "L"?) I saw our nations best off road riders.

Here, if you want a grueling event, check out the 3 hour ATV hare scrambles or, worse yet, the EIGHT HOUR motorcycle hare scrambles on this site.
http://www.bentwheels.com/1/bw/Hare_Scrambles.asp
My arse hurts and forearms turn to spaghetti just thinking about it. I've raced Ironman in Bentwheels (3 hr.) HS events before. NOT a walk in the park. I felt like a hero to finish.

 

[MDBodnar]

posted in wrong place

 

[JT Racer]

Ford in the UK has an entry level rally class using spec cars called the Ford Rallye Academy. They are small tube frame buggy type 2 seaters and use a lot of stock Ford driveline and suspension parts to keep costs down. You can find more info here: [a href="http://www.fordrallyeacademy.com/" target="_blank"]http://www.fordrallyeacademy.com/[/a] They use it for training 13 to 17 year olds, but I don't see why it could not be used for all age groups as an economical entry level class. Kind of the rally version of SCCA Spec Racers.

 

[JD Ackley]

I think the rausch creek stuff is rock crawling. I found a place in Jersey not to far for me I am going to check out this weekend. Should be fun.

 

[Jay]

Aw MAN why can't Ford do that here? Those look like just the ticket. Even if they only made those cars available to us, I bet there'd be a great deal of interest...