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Flat over crest
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Doug Woods - you are not eligible to answer this one.

Name the first American built car to win an FIA rally.
Extra points for the event and year.


Scott
www.teamharco.com
Team Harco Motorsports
"Win on Sunday, Sleep on Monday"
 

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1973 WRC POR
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>Doug Woods - you are not eligible to answer this one.
>
>Name the first American built car to win an FIA rally.
>Extra points for the event and year.

Scott:

I think I know the answer. It was well before my time, but (if we are thinking similarly) perhaps not Scott Senior's.

Doug Woods
 

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So, if you don't count the moral victory of the '64 Falcon on the Monte (on which it won every stage) it must be the Jeep Wagoneer of Gene Henderson on the POR in 1972? Your own Sunbeam Arrow and Plymouth Cricket were UK-built, no? And I can't think of another possible candidate, unless you count some of the early Fords that won the Safari, and I don't think those were American-made anyway.

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.

PS - this is you I'm looking at in the June 1876 issue of Rallye, right?
 

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1973 WRC POR
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>PS - this is you I'm looking at in the June 1876 issue of
>Rallye, right?

Andrew:

That would be the picture of Scott Senior, Senior, Senior, etc. winning the 1876 POR in a one horsepower prototype buggy developed in secret at the recently formed Chrysler Equine Competitions Department?

Doug Woods
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
>And I
>can't think of another possible candidate, unless you count
>some of the early Fords that won the Safari, and I don't
>think those were American-made anyway.

Andrew:

Don't limit yourself by considering only championship events. The question was "FIA Rally".

There were a number of FIA International Rallies in North America which could be considered. In fact, I am now not sure that I have the correct answer. There may have been sanctioned FIA rallies well before the event I had chosen.

Time will tell (or more accurately, Scott will tell).

Doug Woods
 

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>>And I
>>can't think of another possible candidate, unless you count
>>some of the early Fords that won the Safari, and I don't
>>think those were American-made anyway.
>
>Andrew:
>
>Don't limit yourself by considering only championship
>events. The question was "FIA Rally".
>
>There were a number of FIA International Rallies in North
>America which could be considered. In fact, I am now not
>sure that I have the correct answer. There may have been
>sanctioned FIA rallies well before the event I had chosen.
>
>Time will tell (or more accurately, Scott will tell).
>



I believe the correct answer would be a GM product...

I know the answer to this one. Am I allowed to participate?
 

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Old Fart
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Could it be a plymouth Valiant or Barracuda on the Shell 4000 which ran coast to coast in Canada in the late sixties till 1971?

I know Scott Senior won at least once and know he drove Valiants a nd or Barracudas.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
>I believe the correct answer would be a GM product...
>
>I know the answer to this one. Am I allowed to participate?

Eric:

Why not? I was the only person excluded - not sure if I should feel good or bad about that. :)

Doug Woods
 

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>>I believe the correct answer would be a GM product...
>>
>>I know the answer to this one. Am I allowed to participate?
>
>Eric:
>
>Why not? I was the only person excluded - not sure if I
>should feel good or bad about that. :)
>
>Doug Woods


Probably good...

The answer I believe is an Oldsmobile which won the 1954 Great American Mountain Rally, ran out of upstate New York on Thanksgiving weekend.

As far as I have been able to determine, this was the second-ever FIA sanctioned rally in North America. I don't think there was another FIA sanction in either the U.S. or Canada until at least the 1960s. Nor have I been able to find anything that we would really call a "rally" before this.

The 1953 Great American Mountain Rally was won by an MG, but the 1954 event went to an Olds.

There were a couple of works teams in both 1953 & 54. Stirling Moss and Shelia Van Damm both came over from England as a part of the Rootes team.

The first page of the 1954 routebook is here:

http://www.rallyalmanac.com/images/gamrrb.pdf

(this is a 380K PDF, so if you have dialup, it will be a little slow).
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
>The answer I believe is an Oldsmobile which won the 1954
>Great American Mountain Rally, ran out of upstate New York
>on Thanksgiving weekend.
>
>As far as I have been able to determine, this was the
>second-ever FIA sanctioned rally in North America. I don't
>think there was another FIA sanction in either the U.S. or
>Canada until at least the 1960s. Nor have I been able to
>find anything that we would really call a "rally" before
>this.

Eric:

I had originally thought the answer was the 1961 Shell 4000 which was won by a Studebaker Lark (1962 event also, I believe). However, after advising ACP to consider other FIA events in North America, I began to doubt my answer.

So, Scott, does Eric have the correct answer?

Doug Woods
 

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Old Fart
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>
>Probably good...
>
>The answer I believe is an Oldsmobile which won the 1954
>Great American Mountain Rally, ran out of upstate New York
>on Thanksgiving weekend.
>
>As far as I have been able to determine, this was the
>second-ever FIA sanctioned rally in North America. I don't
>think there was another FIA sanction in either the U.S. or
>Canada until at least the 1960s. Nor have I been able to
>find anything that we would really call a "rally" before
>this.
>
>The 1953 Great American Mountain Rally was won by an MG, but
>the 1954 event went to an Olds.
>
>There were a couple of works teams in both 1953 & 54.
>Stirling Moss and Shelia Van Damm both came over from
>England as a part of the Rootes team.
>
>The first page of the 1954 routebook is here:
>
>http://www.rallyalmanac.com/images/gamrrb.pdf
>
>(this is a 380K PDF, so if you have dialup, it will be a
>little slow).
>

Gee Eric, I thought this topic was about historic rallying. I'm a geezer, but consider 1954 PRE-history!

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!
 

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Flat over crest
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OK - It looks like I did not know the correct answer or did not phrase the question properly.

It is very interesting that FIA sanctioned rallies in the U.S. back in the 50s. This is way off my radar screen of records and recollections.

Perhaps my question should have been more to this effect:
What American car was the first to win an FIA 'performance' rally? I.e., one with special stages. There is still a good chance the answer I think is correct may not be. It depends on when special stages became a part of this particular event.

The Arrow (Sunbeam) and Cricket were indeed British cars therefore neither would be the correct answer.

Scott
www.teamharco.com
Team Harco Motorsports
"Win on Sunday, Sleep on Monday"
 

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Flat over crest
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
>>I believe the correct answer would be a GM product...
>>
>>I know the answer to this one. Am I allowed to participate?
>
>Eric:
>
>Why not? I was the only person excluded - not sure if I
>should feel good or bad about that. :)
>
>Doug Woods

Doug,

It was a note that you wrote a few years ago that actually made me do a small amount of investigation. (Obviously - not enough). Basically, you made a statement that I thought might make a good trivia question. I thought you would jump in with the answer on the first note and we wouldn't have as much fun playing with this.

Now, I'm not so sure I know the answer to my own question (which I have since modified to say "an FIA 'stage' rally".

Scott
www.teamharco.com
Team Harco Motorsports
"Win on Sunday, Sleep on Monday"
 

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1973 WRC POR
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2,421 Posts
>It was a note that you wrote a few years ago that actually
>made me do a small amount of investigation. (Obviously -
>not enough). Basically, you made a statement that I thought
>might make a good trivia question. I thought you would jump
>in with the answer on the first note and we wouldn't have as
>much fun playing with this.
>
>Now, I'm not so sure I know the answer to my own question
>(which I have since modified to say "an FIA 'stage' rally".

Scott:

This has certainly been an interesting question. Eric must be correct with his answer to an "FIA Rally".

Now that the question is "FIA Stage Rally", I am sure that my guess of the 1961 Shell 4000 is incorrect. I do not believe that the Shell had special stages in the early years of 1961 to 1963 when it was won by american iron.

The Shell 4000 still seems to be a good guess, but the year and the winning car and driver should be "relatively" easy to determine.

Doug Woods
 

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just another old phart
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>the year
>and the winning car and driver should be "relatively" easy
>to determine.
>
>Doug Woods

Cute, Doug!

Kent Gardam
 

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Old Fart
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Ok, the answer Scott Junior appears to want is his dad, Scott Harvey Sr in 1968 won the Shell 4000 in a Barracuda.

I violated Doug Woods rules of engagement by using reference material to ascertain the correct year and if it was a Valiant or Barracuda, but I substantially had the answer by memory in a previos post.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!
 

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Flat over crest
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
>Ok, the answer Scott Junior appears to want is his dad,
>Scott Harvey Sr in 1968 won the Shell 4000 in a Barracuda.
>

>Paul Jaeger
>PRIMO Stage Crews
>For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

Yes - based on my understanding of FIA stage rallies, it was the first time an American car had claimed victory. It is also possible it is the first time a non-European manufacturer claimed victory.

See the new even easier trivia question coming soon...

Scott
www.teamharco.com
Team Harco Motorsports
"Win on Sunday, Sleep on Monday"
 

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>Now that the question is "FIA Stage Rally", I am sure that
>my guess of the 1961 Shell 4000 is incorrect. I do not
>believe that the Shell had special stages in the early years
>of 1961 to 1963 when it was won by american iron.
>
>The Shell 4000 still seems to be a good guess, but the year
>and the winning car and driver should be "relatively" easy
>to determine.



Here's a question, possibly splitting hairs...

Did the Shell have "stages" or "selectives"?

Since I never ran it, I don't know, but my recollection is that "stages" didn't come along until much later.

From a driver's perspective, there really wasn't any difference between a stage and a selective. From a navigator's perspective, of course, there is.

So the trivia question -- which will be an easy one for codrivers who are therefore excluded from answering -- is what was the difference between a stage and a selective?
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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>So the trivia question -- which will be an easy one for
>codrivers who are therefore excluded from answering -- is
>what was the difference between a stage and a selective?

I'm sure as hell no codriver - never have been - so let me hazard the guess that a slective is a competitive section with a virtually unattainable target time where 'lateness' is penalized while a stage eliminates the target time and simply penalizes a point for every segment of time spent traversing the section.

Close?

Halley ...
Owner/Driver ProRally #86 - world's first New Beetle Rally Car
RealAutoSport, LLC
http://www.realautosport.com
 
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