Special Stage Forums banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I asked Kim DeMotte if I could post some of his comments from Rally-L to broaden the audience. He sent this and I thought this was an excellent proposal for creating a successful relationship between the SCCA and the Championship events. I'll add my comments in a follow-up post. I am sure Kim will Jump in too.


A. Rally organizers provide stage mileage, workers, scoring, timing, hopefully good community relations, etc.

B. Entrants want these things.
1.Because if they're seed 3+ they WANT seat time, practice,
pizza and tee-shirts
2.If they're factory teams they NEED to compete against each
and make the most of the collateral public relations.

C. Sanctioning bodies NEED these things
1.Because they NEED to charge the factories fees for offering
them these venues.

D. Organizers NEED sanctioning bodies for one thing...
1. Insurance

So it seems to me that there could exist a truly symbiotic relationship between the three parties based on their WANTS and NEEDS. Please recognize the difference. The seed 3+ driver does not HAVE to show up at any rally. He does so because it's fun and with whatever disposable income he has he can afford to....but he doesn't HAVE to. The National Points guys HAVE to show up (subtly a much higher level of motivation). I have no problem charging based on need.

SCCA NEEDS organizers (or they can't charge the factories and other sponsors), and organizers NEED SCCA (or some other sanctioning body with insurance connections). I really suspect if you dive into this that it would be easier for an organizer to find insurance than SCCA to find 10-12 organizers if it all blew up.

So what does it take to satisfy all parties?

Let's say a Club Rally organizer has a history of doing a C(3) event with 70 miles for 40+/- cars....costs him $25,000 in expenses (I know the 100AW was close to that). To break even he has to charge $625.car. About what we're hearing these days at least from the NE.

So SCCA comes along and says "we want you to be a National Championship Event. Organizer commits to 120 miles and 100 cars (this is a major commitment as you know logistically...would cut the wheat from the chaff), and all the stuff I said earlier he provides. Let's say he has expenses of $25,000 (wouldn't necessarily go up...he's providing the same stuff), but that does not include any of his personal miles, lodging, phone, etc. Most of us bury that stuff.. If he got 100 cars, spread equally, that would be $250/car and NOBODY would be bitching about that! But most don't draw 100 cars...maybe 2-3 events a year...not even Maine this year.

Let's say instead of organizer paying SCCA a sanction fee, SCCA takes some of their factory/sponsorship money and kicks in $10,000 to the organizer's budget. Now he can recover some of his committee's personal expenses. And on top of that loans them a Subaru for 60 days before the event used to be Mazda pick-up trucks) so he doesn't have to beat the snot out of his personal car. In exchange, SCCA gets to infuse their National Competitors into the list of entrants and distribute National Championship Points based on finishing positions. National Points chasers pay $1000 entry. SCCA gets to own the event (no Bank signs at the water crossing) or at least negotiates with local sponsors to stay in background. So now maybe your budget is $32,000 (you've picked up personal expenses and perked your workers better than in the past).

100 Cars of which 25 are Nationals...$25,000 comes from Nationals leaving $7,000 to be paid by the seed 3+ entrants.....$100 +/-.

I submit that this would A. Increase the number of events being organized, B. vastly increase the number of contestants running, and C. Improve the National Championship because organizers would vie for the rights.

Organizers, BTW would NOT be responsible for all the National/FIA crap. SCCA sends in THEIR techs to do National tech stuff. They get to play THEIR game on OUR field. This is how I ran the CRNC in Salem. It caught Beryl-Ann and the others a little by surprise, but when they figured it out it made sense. WE put on a rally. THEY figured out how to use it to declare a champion. WE were putting on a rally whether or not it was CRNC. WE would put on a rally whether or not it was a National Championship Event. If it is to be so declared, then we commit to 120/100, get a course vehicle and a stipend. We will take ALL National Points chasers at $1000 a pop, and spread the rest of the expenses over the remaining field. Everybody (except possibly the internal SCCA National Office budget) wins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
My only real modification to this would be the "local sponsor in the background"

It should be part of the plan to encorage events to gain sponsorship so that you can have the Swiss Miss Sno*Drift ProRally brought to you by Hyundai, Subaru, and Mitsubishi.

In addition, should an event be in the calendar one year and out the next (for whatever reason) you would have a better chance of retaining the event sponsor if they new they would have equitable tenure.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
It seems highly unlikely that this is even possible. You are asking the SCCA to Give $10,000 insted of receive it when they already claim to be operating at a loss (which still doesen't make any sense to me). I think the problem brought up before about the SCCA ProRally marketing not being functional(profitable) still stands. Untill the SCCA gets a ProRally Series sponsor, and/or starts actively persuing local ProRally event sponsors. Until this happens, ProRally organizers will continue to pay for the "privilage" or putting on an event for the manufacturers to market their goods.
 

·
don't cut
Joined
·
2,252 Posts
Great Ideas! If the SCCA had to kick in $10k per event, then maybe they would get off their arse and find a series sponsor to bankroll it. If a marketing staff is as proficient and experienced as the SCCA claims to be, they should be able to scrounge up $100k (10 events). That's what some drivers are currently shelling out to run the series. Heck, I know some regional sprint car teams that can come up with that much in a season, surely the mighty SCCA can!

I, for one, would like to get something back for once. Currently I carry three sponsor stickers, plus SCCA logos on my car. The SCCA has reserved another 4 sq. ft of space on my car as well. For this my only compensation is the "right" to run a prorally. I don't even get a discount on the sponsor's products. So where is this money going? One could only assume that this money is then given to the organizers, but apparently that isn't the case. Where does that money go? I suppose into the general coffers. That way they can reduce everybody's dues by $10 a year. Well, I'm sorry guys, but 4 sq. ft of prime space on my car is worth one hell of a lot more than 10 bucks a year....but I would give it up for 100 bucks and event ($10/100 cars).

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
I would put a LOW ceiling on the "guaranteed" number of ProRally entries. This would protect the local/regional ClubRally base.

How about a 120/100/25 Formula (120 miles / 100 competitors / 25 Pro-Entries).

Of course if ClubRally folks didn't fill the field, then more ProRally entries might be allowable.

Rich Smith
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
< "Untill the SCCA gets a ProRally Series sponsor, and/or starts actively persuing local ProRally event sponsors. Until this happens, ProRally organizers will continue to pay for the "privilage" or putting on an event for the manufacturers to market their goods." >

I don't think the Organizers pay now, and they shouldn't. But, rising costs are being passed on to the competitors. That's the current $ problem. Particularly if ClubRally opportunity is jeopardized or ClubRally costs increase due to ProRally needs.

Rich Smith
 

·
600 /CR !!! R2>
Joined
·
450 Posts
I've stayed out of this debate up till now, but there's too much whining to ignore... :)

The problem with ProRally is that it is not truly "Pro," much like SCCA ProRacing is not _truly_ Pro. For an example of how a professional series ought to be run, look to something like the SCCA Trans Am series. These guys are, for the most part, true professional drivers (aside from the handful of very rich guys that can afford to drive in a professional series with low levels of sponsorship).

US Rallying needs a tier like Trans Am. ClubRally fills the divisional and entry-level needs, ProRally does the same for national-level amateurs/semi-professional, but there really needs to be a "Professional" market for people to play. And the only way this is going to happen is for someone to make a conscious decision to do so. Rallying is at the point now where, if it's provided, people will step up to play. Project a professional image, and sponsors will cough up professional money.

Here's how the road racing world is organized:
1. International (FIA, F1, IMSA, etc.)
2. National professional (Trans Am, CART, IRL, etc.)
3. National semi-professional (World Challenge, Pro Spec Racer, etc.)
4. Regional (SCCA Club Racing)

We need something similar in Rallying:
1. International (FIA WRC)
2. .... <-- !!! need to fill the gap
3. National semi-pro (ProRally)
4. Regional (ClubRally)

Again, "If you build it, they will come." And it's not going to shut out all the rallyist who are competing now; rather, it'll just be done right. There are a number of national amateur competitors whose budgets are being strained to compete there, maybe they simply shouldn't be there. All the fun of a ProRally is there at every ClubRally, and if you can't afford to run nationally, that's what the club events are for.

As long as there are people who will try to hold back the level of competition in the US so they can run nationally, there will be fewer competitors who can find sponsors and thus fewer people who can afford to run. It's a catch-22. C'mon, if you're not racing against more than a handful of others, who are you really beating? Provide the series, and new money will pour in. More $$$ at the top level = trickle-down to more events at the Club level.

And that doesn't mean that Club cars can't run at the National events. Professional road races are always run in conjunction with regionals. The same can be done for the National Rallies, if they're done right (more workers, no turn-around stages).

I'm not the person to do this. I'm new to the whole rally world, I've only competed in one event, but I am thinking about organizing a Club rally (VT or northeast NY). You can't keep riding on the coattails of others and not giving back, and still turn around and complain about the way things are done. Not enough local rallies? Organize one, THEN you can complain that no one else is doing things the way you want.

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." -- Isaiah 45:22
 

·
Left seat and not British!
Joined
·
785 Posts
I'll take the liberty of posting a later e-mail to you, Mike...

As I think about it, I would not want Swiss Miss to reduce the cost to the national sponsors. Let's remember what everybody needs out of this. Whether or not there's an add-on local sponsor, SubiHyunbishi is paying for a show to put on TV. That price should not necessarily vary. Organizers deliver the platform for that show. The challenge is to keep Swiss Miss happy.

Instead of the event being Sno*Drift presented by Subaru, Hyundai and
Mitsubishi, it's the Swiss Miss Sno*Drift rally part of the Subaru, Hyundai, Mitsubishi US National Championship series! Ta DAH! SHM is not buying your rally. They're adding your Swiss Miss rally to their National Championship.

Make sense?

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
946 Posts
>It seems highly unlikely that this is even possible. You
>are asking the SCCA to Give $10,000 insted of receive it
>when they already claim to be operating at a loss (which
>still doesen't make any sense to me). I think the problem
>brought up before about the SCCA ProRally marketing not
>being functional(profitable) still stands. Untill the SCCA
>gets a ProRally Series sponsor, and/or starts actively
>persuing local ProRally event sponsors. Until this happens,
>ProRally organizers will continue to pay for the "privilage"
>or putting on an event for the manufacturers to market their
>goods.

Each Television show costs $20,000 or so to put on... times 10 events... instead of a National sponsor, we have television. Television is benefiting the Manufactuters and not the average competitor. If the Manufacturers would put that $200,000 into the series proper then perhaps we could have lower entry fees. The money is being spent on ProRally, its just being spent in a different place, a place that isn't helpful to any of the typical ProRally competitiors.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top