Special Stage Forums banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having just viewed the SCCA paperwork, can anyone out there publish any figures for NASA's coverage for events? I'm sure that there are quite a few people who may also be interested too.


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I was referring to the figures given out by SCCA which are posted via a link in RA's web site.

What coverage is NASA providing for workers etc? What figures can anyone provide for public viewing? Not too much to ask is it? What is the cost figure per entry?


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Answer anyone?

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
Joined
·
626 Posts
Yes, I'd like to compare both, RA and NASA insurances as well. :+

Whiplash RallyeSport
(Rallye isn't a crime)
 

·
Four tree two remember Andrew
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
To the rally community:

We will be posting an insurance breakdown on the NASA Rally Sport site in the near future. The language of the breakdown is being reviewed by our insurers in order to make sure that we do not misrepresent any of the coverage that it provides. NASA Rally Sport has no desire to enter into a debate on insurance coverage on Special Stage, and further questions should be directed to the Rallysport section of www.nasaforums.com or to me personally at wilson -at- nasarallysport.com.

In the meantime, in general terms, the policy provides:

Primary Liability: $1 Million per occurrence/$2 Million per event aggregate
Products and Completed Operations: $1 Million per occurrence/$2 Million per event aggregate
Personal and Advertising Injury: $1 Million per occurrence/$1 Million per event
Damages to Rented Premises: $50K
Directors, Officers & Stewards Errors & Ommissions: $50K per occurrence/$100K per event in situations not covered by Primary Liability.
Excess Liability: $4 Million
Participant Accident: $15K Accidental Death & Dismemberment, $50K Excess Accident Medical

As far as coverage for volunteer workers, they are covered under the above regardless of whether they are members of NASA or not. Coverage extends to any person or organization engaged in operating, managing, sanctioning, sponsoring or providing the premises including officials, as well as drivers, auto (competition vehicle) owners and sponsors, mechanics, pitpersons, announcers, ambulance crews, tow truck or push car crews, news persons, photographers, pit gate workers, and all other persons who have signed a waiver of liability.

The event premium will cover multi-day events, as well as weekends with multiple events, inculding rallycrosses.

DISCLAIMER: The above is provided as a matter of information only. It does not amend, extend or alter the coverages afforded by the policies.

Very truly yours,

Wilson von Kessler
General Counsel/Risk Manager
NASA Rally Sport
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you.

What is the per entry cost for events? What is the total cost per event for an organiser?


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
A fair question, certainly for an organizer. But, let's keep in mind that there is a bit of a 'competitive' situation going on. I would personally hestitate to openly release cost info at the present time, unless I had some assurance or agreement of non-disclosure with the party receiving the information. I do not necessarily believe this is automatically open information to the public; a biz entity has the right to protect information that it may consider sensitive. Wilson is certainly also doing the right thing to work with insurers over relase of information.

Before too much flaming begins, that's my personal view of operating a business. Either NASA or RA may choose to openly disclose this information; it's certainly not for me to decide. I just want to make a somehwat neutral observation. I don't think anyone would be in the right to be upset if this was not made public. I also think the bottom line to competitors, and probably organizers, is the overall event costs.

Mark B.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mike, it would appear to be public knowledge the cost per entry from SCCA and RA, so why would NASA choose not to disclose the fees?


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,387 Posts
Hey Pete:

Why are you trying to stir the pot??

I remember very clearly your position regarding sanctioning bodies and insurance last year, what changed??

Tony Chavez
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Just asking legitimate questions.

Why not post the information and be done with it?


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 
G

·
well of course that's not quite the same.

The sanctioning bodies are providing participants with insurance coverage while they compete.

As I mentioned in the RA forums, we have a right to know the details of those coverages, and we'd be foolish not to ask about them.

As for specifics of pricing, I have no issue with the individual sanctioning bodies treating that as priveleged information between themselves and their organizers.

It's odd that this suddenly appears to be a contentious issue, but that's perhaps because the situation with SCCA brought it to a forefront.


Not being an insurance expert, I'd personally find it useful to have examples of the types of scenarios that coverages would cover, but there doesn't seem to be a rush to explain what exactly we are paying for.

Because I don't understand what the insurance actually protects, it doesn't particularly help me to post prices online.

I would trust the individual organizers have the contacts and information they need to make decisions they feel are in their best interests, regardless if the communications to determine that are public or private.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Lurch, Just what has the contents of my bank account(s) got to do with asking what the costs are for insuring competitors cars on rallies? I'm not looking for a 'debate', (Mr Von Kessler's words, not mine), I'm just looking for facts. The figures already out there from SCCA and RA are common knowledge, why the deafening silence from NASA?
Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No apology necessary.


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
As a competitor, I did a lot of research on NASA vs SCCA insurance last summer. It was nothing official; I wanted to clearly understand the differences in the 2 policies so I could understand my risk as a competitor. I spent a great deal of time on the phone with Ray and Wilson von Kessler on the NASA side and Pete Lyons on the SCCA side. It was interesting trying to get to the bottom of whose coverage did what. My concern was that I had been told AS HEARSAY that the NASA policy limits of the Primary Liability were for the entire NASA operations for the entire year. It was very clear the SCCA insurance primary limits were ?reset? at every event. This is an important issue as if there are losses in one event that ?use up? the primary coverage; there may not be that coverage available at a subsequent event. I was greatly concerned because if there is a major loss the injured party will start to look for any deep pocket available with or without insurance. Even after all of the conversations and research it was never clearly put forth by NASA as to whether their primary limits were ?reset? with each event. I was going to start the research again this year because there are a number of NASA events I want to run, but I want to fully understand my liability risks. I dropped looking at it when the SCCA to a powder and did not want to start being perceived as ?throwing stones?, I figured it would come up again at the start of this season.

This is not an attack on anyone or organization, I really want to understand my risks before I start racing. The last thing I want to do is explain to my wife and family why their nest egg is gone because I had an accident in my rally car. If there are any insurance experts out there that can explain how it works and what exactly NASA has it would be helpful.

According to JB the RA insurance does ?reset? every event. Wilson does the NASA insurance ?reset? the primary limits every event?

Ralph Kosmides
 

·
Four tree two remember Andrew
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
>According to JB the RA insurance does ?reset? every event.
>Wilson does the NASA insurance ?reset? the primary limits
>every event?
>
>Ralph Kosmides
>

Ralph:

In order to clear up any misunderstanding that you or anybody else may have regarding this issue, please be advised that during your and my discussion last year, we inquired to our agents regarding this specific issue. Their reply was as follows:

"Form AG 5002 is titled AMENDMENT - AGGREGATE LIMITS OF INSURANCE PER EVENT. This form states that 'The General Aggregate Limit shown under LIMITS OF INSURANCE (SECTION III) applies separately to each of your events.' Your general aggregate limit is $2,000,000."

"So, if you had an event and there were separate occurrences, we would pay a total of $2,000,000 ($1,000,000 per occurrence, not to exceed the general agg of $2,000,000). Then, a week later, you had two more separate occurrences, we would pay a total of $2,000,000 because the general agg applies separately to each event."

So, the answer to your question is yes, NASA's primary coverage "resets" every event.

Regards,

Wilson von Kessler
General Counsel/Risk Manager
NASA Rally Sport
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
According to Wilson's post above the limits he stated were per occurrence and per event. Therefore the limit is reinstated as of each event. Also note should the aggregate of $2 million be reached they have an $4 million excess policy.

I have not read any of these policies and am just basing this on what I have read in the forums.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top