NASA Club National Championship
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Joined
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760 Posts
>Are there any plans for a Club/Divisional National
>Championship for NASA ?
>
>I know they announced a road race championship event at Mid
>Ohio, just wondering if something similar will happen for the
>rally?
>
>-k
If you are talking about rally, there are no such plans.
I have always thought that deciding a rally championship title
based on the results of a single event is a wrong idea that probably
originated with SCCA runoffs. You would be hard pressed to find any
other rally championship anywhere that is awarded based on the
results of a single event.
Ivan Orisek
Rally New York USA
International Rally New York
Rally New York Rallysprints
Rally New York Rallycross Series
>Championship for NASA ?
>
>I know they announced a road race championship event at Mid
>Ohio, just wondering if something similar will happen for the
>rally?
>
>-k
If you are talking about rally, there are no such plans.
I have always thought that deciding a rally championship title
based on the results of a single event is a wrong idea that probably
originated with SCCA runoffs. You would be hard pressed to find any
other rally championship anywhere that is awarded based on the
results of a single event.
Ivan Orisek
Rally New York USA
International Rally New York
Rally New York Rallysprints
Rally New York Rallycross Series
>I have always thought that deciding a rally championship title
>
>based on the results of a single event is a wrong idea that
>probably
>originated with SCCA runoffs. You would be hard pressed to
>find any
>other rally championship anywhere that is awarded based on the
>
>results of a single event.
I agree that a single event doesn't make a lot of sense--basically whatever region it is in is going to win the majority of the championships by default of geography.
I do like the idea of crowning a national champ for club, but don't know of a good way to do it.
The current SCCA/RA method is pretty much best of the central div and does not reflect a true 'champion' in most cases. Its a shame.
I wonder if there is another way to do it similar to the way western states rally championship is determined?
-k
-k
>
>based on the results of a single event is a wrong idea that
>probably
>originated with SCCA runoffs. You would be hard pressed to
>find any
>other rally championship anywhere that is awarded based on the
>
>results of a single event.
I agree that a single event doesn't make a lot of sense--basically whatever region it is in is going to win the majority of the championships by default of geography.
I do like the idea of crowning a national champ for club, but don't know of a good way to do it.
The current SCCA/RA method is pretty much best of the central div and does not reflect a true 'champion' in most cases. Its a shame.
I wonder if there is another way to do it similar to the way western states rally championship is determined?
-k
-k
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm,
Think about the question.
Regional rallys/Nat'l champion?
If you want to be the Nat'l champ, run Nationally.
Sounds obvious to me.
ESRC & WSRC sounds reasonable enough for "club" entrants.
rz
Think about the question.
Regional rallys/Nat'l champion?
If you want to be the Nat'l champ, run Nationally.
Sounds obvious to me.
ESRC & WSRC sounds reasonable enough for "club" entrants.
rz
Joined
·
760 Posts
<I wonder if there is another way to do it similar to the way
<western states rally championship is determined?
Eastern States Rally Championship? (Sanctioned by NASA Rally Sport)
<western states rally championship is determined?
Eastern States Rally Championship? (Sanctioned by NASA Rally Sport)
I am not going to comment on the NASA events since I havent run them recently but I like the idea of a Regional Cup Runoff. The concept of having a runoff where the regional champions are given an opportunity to compete against the best in the other regions is a great idea. There are some very good regional drivers who can't compete for the national championship for a number of reasons (ie pay for 3 or 4 long tows across country) and having a single invite only event where they can compete against the best in the other regions allows them to shine. There is a higher liklihood that a regional champion can pay for a single tow to the center of the country for the purposes of a runoff.
2005 was a transition period for RA and so the regional cup championship event (100 Acre Woods) may not have all of the top regional drivers this year but hopefully there will be more support for it in 2006.
Regional competitors participation can make or break a national event. Giving the top regional competitors the opportunity, once a year, to shine above their peers in the other regions only helps to support the sport.
-Tim
Wazoo Racing
2005 was a transition period for RA and so the regional cup championship event (100 Acre Woods) may not have all of the top regional drivers this year but hopefully there will be more support for it in 2006.
Regional competitors participation can make or break a national event. Giving the top regional competitors the opportunity, once a year, to shine above their peers in the other regions only helps to support the sport.
-Tim
Wazoo Racing
Joined
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2,953 Posts
Tim (and others),
You say, "There are some very good regional drivers who can't compete for the national championship for a number of reasons..."
A regional competitor is a regional competitor.
How many champions does a sport of 200 entrants need?
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probably half dreamers, writers, photogs, shops, suppliers, etc.}
If someone wants to know how good they are, run a National near home.
Many "regional" competitors are only poor because they spend too much on turbos, race fuel, large/pro service crews and duallys. There are plenty of ways to see how good you are, but to make artificial "Champions" many times over is too much.
With two sanctioning bodies, there's no chance everyone would attend anyway, making the ownership of the award questionable.
rz
You say, "There are some very good regional drivers who can't compete for the national championship for a number of reasons..."
A regional competitor is a regional competitor.
How many champions does a sport of 200 entrants need?
{frapple map
"NARally
A map of rally people, events, and businesses in North America. Rally is a form of car racing that takes place on real roads closed to normal traffic.
Tags: rally racing cars
(Admins, click here to
customize your map)
Add Yourself
Subscribe | Contact Admin
Members (274)
Showing 200 of 274 members.
Sort by: name place join date"
probably half dreamers, writers, photogs, shops, suppliers, etc.}
If someone wants to know how good they are, run a National near home.
Many "regional" competitors are only poor because they spend too much on turbos, race fuel, large/pro service crews and duallys. There are plenty of ways to see how good you are, but to make artificial "Champions" many times over is too much.
With two sanctioning bodies, there's no chance everyone would attend anyway, making the ownership of the award questionable.
rz
Randy-
The frapple map doesn’t even come close to depicting the number of competitors in the sport. Considering that RA has issued more than 500 licenses and I will bet no more than 25% are national that leaves close to 400 regional licenses just in RA. I have no idea what NASA's numbers are.
Attending a local national event doesn’t necessarily mean that some classes will have competition. I can think of a number of times when awards were presented in some class because the only entry finished. What does that competitor driving a Production Honda do as a comparison? Look at his times versus Pat's or Travis'?
"Many "regional" competitors are only poor because they spend too much on turbos, race fuel, large/pro service crews and dually’s."
- True but there are still many regional competitors that don't have that bling and still don't have the money or time to run compete for a national championship.
BUT the sport in the US is built upon the regional competitors - they can make or break the national event in their region. If the sport is going to grow (and it needs to in order to stay viable) then the sanctioning organizations need to provide a program where competitors can develop and show off their skills. Once a regional competitor develops decent skills it doesn’t necessarily mean that they have the money or the ability to run for the national championship. The runoff provides a venue for the top regional competitor to truly test his skill against his real peers - the other regional champions.
I don't think anyone would disagree that a single event should not decide a championship. But a regional runoff event is not a championship. Those competitors that are invited are all ready champions - they won their region - the runoff gives them the opportunity to be recognized and compete against the other top teams in the country. It certainly doesn’t demean the championship that they all ready won. On the contrary it’s a reward for doing well in their region and an opportunity to be in the limelight.
I realize that this currently isn't the case with the regional runoff. I'll bet that the RA regional cup runoffs at 100-Acre Woods won't have all of the classes from each region represented. 2005 was a period of transition for RA and they can't fund everything. But that doesn’t mean that since it doesn't work exactly as planned for 2005 it won't work for 2006 and the concept of identifying and rewarding top regional drivers should be abandoned.
The sanctioning organizations do need to come together. They need to realize that competition between sanctioning groups IS NOT GOOD and hurts the sports ability to grow. But that is a different topic and soapbox for another thread.
-Tim
Wazoo Racing
The frapple map doesn’t even come close to depicting the number of competitors in the sport. Considering that RA has issued more than 500 licenses and I will bet no more than 25% are national that leaves close to 400 regional licenses just in RA. I have no idea what NASA's numbers are.
Attending a local national event doesn’t necessarily mean that some classes will have competition. I can think of a number of times when awards were presented in some class because the only entry finished. What does that competitor driving a Production Honda do as a comparison? Look at his times versus Pat's or Travis'?
"Many "regional" competitors are only poor because they spend too much on turbos, race fuel, large/pro service crews and dually’s."
- True but there are still many regional competitors that don't have that bling and still don't have the money or time to run compete for a national championship.
BUT the sport in the US is built upon the regional competitors - they can make or break the national event in their region. If the sport is going to grow (and it needs to in order to stay viable) then the sanctioning organizations need to provide a program where competitors can develop and show off their skills. Once a regional competitor develops decent skills it doesn’t necessarily mean that they have the money or the ability to run for the national championship. The runoff provides a venue for the top regional competitor to truly test his skill against his real peers - the other regional champions.
I don't think anyone would disagree that a single event should not decide a championship. But a regional runoff event is not a championship. Those competitors that are invited are all ready champions - they won their region - the runoff gives them the opportunity to be recognized and compete against the other top teams in the country. It certainly doesn’t demean the championship that they all ready won. On the contrary it’s a reward for doing well in their region and an opportunity to be in the limelight.
I realize that this currently isn't the case with the regional runoff. I'll bet that the RA regional cup runoffs at 100-Acre Woods won't have all of the classes from each region represented. 2005 was a period of transition for RA and they can't fund everything. But that doesn’t mean that since it doesn't work exactly as planned for 2005 it won't work for 2006 and the concept of identifying and rewarding top regional drivers should be abandoned.
The sanctioning organizations do need to come together. They need to realize that competition between sanctioning groups IS NOT GOOD and hurts the sports ability to grow. But that is a different topic and soapbox for another thread.
-Tim
Wazoo Racing
Joined
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2,953 Posts
Club National Championship
Look at the recent entry lists to see how "big" the fields are.
A license is just the start, if someone only enters one or two rallys a year, that is just a casual competitor (like JB!) so don't get all starry-eyed that this sport has a huge number of "real" competitors.
Glad I'm not alone on this one, (sometimes it feels like it):
"The sanctioning organizations do need to come together. They need to realize that competition between sanctioning groups IS NOT GOOD and hurts the sports ability to grow."
But, when a rally of great roads, distance, great organization, that's reasonably priced and promoted agressively that everyone just HAD to go to emerges, you'd have a tough time restricting it to just regional teams. THAT'S the one we're all looking for and would be worth towing to. NASA NATIONALS have a good start on that formula.
Maine and STPR were close to that status once as they had entry cut-offs. They weren't in the middle of the country but had the status that made them a MUST run event. That's how you get a representative field, not just by calling it a "big deal" alone.
BTW, what's a regional competitor? who isn't one?
rz
Look at the recent entry lists to see how "big" the fields are.
A license is just the start, if someone only enters one or two rallys a year, that is just a casual competitor (like JB!) so don't get all starry-eyed that this sport has a huge number of "real" competitors.
Glad I'm not alone on this one, (sometimes it feels like it):
"The sanctioning organizations do need to come together. They need to realize that competition between sanctioning groups IS NOT GOOD and hurts the sports ability to grow."
But, when a rally of great roads, distance, great organization, that's reasonably priced and promoted agressively that everyone just HAD to go to emerges, you'd have a tough time restricting it to just regional teams. THAT'S the one we're all looking for and would be worth towing to. NASA NATIONALS have a good start on that formula.
Maine and STPR were close to that status once as they had entry cut-offs. They weren't in the middle of the country but had the status that made them a MUST run event. That's how you get a representative field, not just by calling it a "big deal" alone.
BTW, what's a regional competitor? who isn't one?
rz
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