[RussR]

How about Single Venue Rallies? Bigger than rallysprints, smaller than the average club rally. Held at places like Rally Park Northeast, that new venue in NY, or Heartland Park.

Entry fees under $200 for maybe 20 miles or so. Controlled venues on private roads, and easier spectator control might lead to cheaper insurance.

Holding multiple different events, like a "hot import daze" with an attached rally would lead to guaranteed spectators numbering in the thousands. Then it's easier to bring in a title sponsor to help defray costs. Vendor booths could then be sold...local TV access, invite the media etc etc etc...

I have been to many non-rally events over this past summer: concerts, rib cook offs, car shows, festivals, paintball tournaments with DICK CLARK, and wondered why rally events couldn't be organized the same way.. and I think single venue events could be...

Is this type of event of any interest to the club guys?

 

[randyzimmer]

I'd would be happy to do it.
Rapidan had a long enough stage to be interesting, pretty tight in spots but what-the-hey.
I approached Watkins Glen a couple years ago and they weren't too overly interested but that'd be 3000 fenced acres. They could be persuaded.
Hey Russ, ever think of that Beaver-something-or-other place?
rz

 

[jake himes]

good idea Russ

 

[Lancia037Rally]

Rapidan

>Rapidan had a long enough stage to be interesting, pretty
>tight in spots but what-the-hey.

We could visually see 5 cars on course similtaneously from the net control observation tower.

Best 'spectating' I've ever seen. How many rallies are there where its difficult choosing which car to watch? 840 turns (mostly hairpins)in 30 miles. Winning time was longer than many ProRallies.

2001
http://dcrally.com/clubrally/rapidan/index.htm

2002
http://dcrally.com/clubrally/rapidan02/index.htm

 

[RussR]

>I'd would be happy to do it.
>Rapidan had a long enough stage to be interesting, pretty
>tight in spots but what-the-hey.
>I approached Watkins Glen a couple years ago and they
>weren't too overly interested but that'd be 3000 fenced
>acres. They could be persuaded.
>Hey Russ, ever think of that Beaver-something-or-other
>place?
>rz

There had been a lot of talk about a rally with BeaveRun as the central service point. There has been support from Beaverun, NASA, and some community leaders also. There has also been talk of plowing some roads into the woods on their property, so these things are still on the table. So it may evolve into an actual rally, or maybe exactly what I am describing above.

The "Beave" still likes to hold rallycrosses, as they will have one this Saturday, and do seem enthusiastic about expanding their rally events.

I keep thinking about private land owned by rally sympathizers as a way to keep insurance, and road use costs down. In the past that seemed like "pie in the sky" thinking, but now there are some venues that are privately owned. It may be possible to run events with no membership or license costs for entrants if the venue provides the insurance, ala BeaveRun. I like the discussion on this board about keeping costs down for competitors, but it is hard to control entry fees, rulebook changes that incur constant money outlay for the new rules, licenses, and membership dues, without re thinking how we run events. I shell out at least the cost of one event just for rule upgrades and licenses/memberships for me and my wife/co-driver every year.

The biggest obstacle is to not always pass on cost increases to the competitior, but to sell sponsorship. That can't be done without people through the gate. Which is why I favor multiple events run concurrently. I am about to cut a commercial for my radio station, and it is promoting an event in Pittsburgh for Talib Kweli (a hip hop artist) with Motocross events, and Jeopardy show tryouts all at the same time, for $10. As an idea of how this "cross promotion" works, I work at a rock station. Our listeners may not dig Talib, but certainly would like MotoX or a chance to try out for Jeopardy. A little something for everyone....

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to introduce some new ideas....

 

[RichardM]

Camp Maxey, Paris Texas. Up to 12 mile stage. But while somewhat lower, costs are not insignificant. We still have to repair roads but get that donated. Now maybe if we cut out the marching band.......

 

[Flyboy]

>How about Single Venue Rallies? Bigger than rallysprints,
>smaller than the average club rally. Held at places like
>Rally Park Northeast, that new venue in NY, or Heartland
>Park.
>
\>
>Is this type of event of any interest to the club guys?

Yeah, a stadium is great. We can have bands and a car show, and chicks. But that dust might be a problem. Let's do it on pavement. Jumps and bumps just break stuff anyways. And classes suck, we'll just have one big class. I know, let's rate the drivers on how sideways they get, just for fun. AFterall, it's just seat time, so who cares how fast they are going. The fans will love it. And we'll do superspecials, with side by side racing, or better yet just let two cars go at the same time and chase each other. This will be great! But some stadiums don't have a lot of room, so let's just make the stage really short, like a half mile, or 6 turns maybe. Oh man, this is gonna take the US by storm....

Ok, ok, I'm sorry for that highly cynical interpretation of your idea. But remember, take out the forest and all you have left is drifting. Part of the fun of rallying is the adventure, the cross country travel. Single venue sprints might be a good tune up, but they are no substitute for a real in the woods rally. If we wanted to go drifting, we'd go drifting.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

 

[randyzimmer]

RE: 3000 acres is not a stadium

Dennis,
I know what you're saying but look at the 2002 results Dave has in reply #3. Each 1/2 is 25 minutes made of 3, 9 minute stages. That may not be 28 km but longer than a lot of "pro" rally stages.
Danny took me around the woods at Beaver Run and they have a lot of roads already built.
rz

 

[RussR]

>>How about Single Venue Rallies? Bigger than rallysprints,
>>smaller than the average club rally. Held at places like
>>Rally Park Northeast, that new venue in NY, or Heartland
>>Park.
>>
>\>
>>Is this type of event of any interest to the club guys?
>
>Yeah, a stadium is great. We can have bands and a car show,
>and chicks. But that dust might be a problem. Let's do it
>on pavement. Jumps and bumps just break stuff anyways. And
>classes suck, we'll just have one big class. I know, let's
>rate the drivers on how sideways they get, just for fun.
>AFterall, it's just seat time, so who cares how fast they
>are going. The fans will love it. And we'll do
>superspecials, with side by side racing, or better yet just
>let two cars go at the same time and chase each other. This
>will be great! But some stadiums don't have a lot of room,
>so let's just make the stage really short, like a half mile,
>or 6 turns maybe. Oh man, this is gonna take the US by
>storm....
>
>Ok, ok, I'm sorry for that highly cynical interpretation of
>your idea. But remember, take out the forest and all you
>have left is drifting. Part of the fun of rallying is the
>adventure, the cross country travel. Single venue sprints
>might be a good tune up, but they are no substitute for a
>real in the woods rally. If we wanted to go drifting, we'd
>go drifting.
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845

I'm not talking about NO forests, I'm not talking about drifting. If you haven't seen the images from the Kearny rallysprint go here: (I think calling it a rally sprint undermines what appeared to be an awesome event)

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID30/948.html

or try here for rally Park Northeast

http://www.rallyparknortheast.com/gallery.html

and take a peek. and if you still think it looks like drifting, well you ain't never seen drifting then!!

I'm talking about single venue events, not drifting or rally cross. I think it would be a huge advantage for possible sponsors (of the event, not teams themselves) vendors and spectators if we lumped a rally event with some other type of auto event that already attracts people. I mentioned Hot Import Daze as an example because I've been involved on the promotion end and seen 5,000 people show up to look at cars in a giant parking lot. I've also seen sponsors line up to cover the cost of renting an amphiteater and have seen my company turn a profit on the show. Why not co-promote the events, to help keep entry fees down? The cost of increased insurance, roads, etc cannot keep getting passed directly to entry fees. There needs to be a way to attract other money, and I am throwing this out there.

I might add that I am not talking about replacing pro rallies with these events, but adding something for entry level people, and other club guys to get more involved in the sport.

 

[rallytime]

Yes! Your rationale makes sense and could bring more people into the sport while giving us entry-level guys cheap ways to compete.

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Rapidan

And it beat my car almost as badly as a 120 mile pro rally. That event was no fun. I'm sure a better course could be done there. Single venue events are certainly an option for me if they'd be done right. But the Kearney event this past weekend (which we ran) was too expensive for what it was. 12 miles for $275! I'm sure their venue will grow to many more miles and eventually be a very worthwhile venue. What was there was excellant.

 

[Don Kennedy]

Russ, what's the radio station (AM/FM, frequency). I'm passing thru Pittsburgh tomorrow and would like to check it out.

 

[Don Kennedy]

Not to be negative, but where would these events most likely be? Just like the Kearney site, out in the middle of nowhere where you won't get many people to a car show, etc. That seems to be a problem with a multiple event situation like you're describing. But still worth a try.

 

[FMF]

I am not even sure that there needs to be the tag along events. The event itself just needs to be promoted and facilitate the spectators that do show up. Right now rally in the US predominantly, is a hard-core sport. You need to commit the better part of the day to driving out in the woods bring your cooler because it will be your only prayer for sustenance. Also make sure it?s not a collapsible one, because you will end up sitting on it because you can only carry so much stuff the two miles down the road you had to park up and the muddy path you had to take to get to the designated spectator area. Also don?t forget it will take you at least an hour to get out because everyone else is walking up the road you have to drive down and the cars are still parked along the side. Oh and did I forget while you are out their beside the road you have no idea what is going on you just see cars go by you have no idea who is winning unless they just did a restart. I thought The PRPP money would take car of some of this but I saw no change whatsoever in how things were done.

Possible solutions; Broadcast event information over the radio like a local FM channel use it to promote the event before hand and then to disperse nearly real time info from stages (you already have HAMS).

Set stages up in such a way that they are spectator friendly. Friday night is a perfect time to do it, it?s mostly a joke anyhow from a drivers perspective hardly any stage miles on most rallies and a lot of screwing around. So just have 2-3 medium length stages that are close to each other run them all in the light once and then a Quick service and then run them all backwards again in the dark it won?t even seam like the same stages. Then the spectators can stay out there and see the cars more than once in a fairly short period of time.

Do things to make it simpler and more fun for spectators. In Canada at Bai De Chalours sp. they have the path lit with lights strung through the woods a vendor with food and drinks music playing a bit more of a carnival atmosphere than the wankers sitting in the woods watching cars scenario we have. Hey they even have bleachers so your cooler doesn?t have to do double duty. Also you run through that area like at least 4 times at the end of 2-3 different stages. You might think would be boring but it isn?t because there is a cambered 3 into 3, an awesome hairpin and two jumps which are fun to drive and fun to watch and at least one of the times is in the dark so that changes things.

Just generally changing the approach to make things more spectator friendly is the way to go and it doesn?t necessarily have to take away from the driving pleasure just use some creativity.

 

[RussR]

>Russ, what's the radio station (AM/FM, frequency). I'm
>passing thru Pittsburgh tomorrow and would like to check it
>out.

105.9 FM 10am to 3 pm.... WXDX-FM

 

[RussR]

Beaverun is about 40 min. from Pittsburgh, and a good example of the possibility of multiple events. Go Kart track, road course, areas for vendors etc.

RPNE is not that far from Harrisburg, PA, and I'm not sure how far Heartland park is from Topeka, but I imagine not too far?

I was at a national Paintball Tournament last month at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort (it's like Disney for Rich $$$ people), it's at least an hour from Pgh, and was thoroughly impressed with the operation. Tons of people, teams from as far away as Russia, giant equipment trucks on site, vendors ready to completely outfit any participant, etc. and just thought that if they can do it, why can't rally? I wound up talking to one of their promotions people and learned thay have about 20 miles of roads already for their Hummer Driving academy. So I droped a bug in their ear about rally, and they were receptive. They are interested in more auto related events, and did not discount my ideas. So there is another POSSIBLE private venue.

I just think we need to start looking at alternate sites and ideas for rally events. A great way to promote our events, which are still generally unfamiliar to the masses, is to leech onto an existing, well attended event. Whatever that may be....

Russ

 

[AaronJMcConnell]

Sounds to me like you need to move to Colorado. We have the Colorado Hillclimb Series. $170 per event. Saturday is practice, Sunday is race day-best time of 2 runs. Full recce, no cats, no restrictors. Tow fund winnings per event plus year end winnings. Camp at the event, cookout, drink beer, see the sights, hang with friends...We are very lucky! I doubt it's safe enough for some of you though-too much freedom and fun. Seriously though, consider it next year!!!

Aaron McConnell

 

[Greg Donovan]

cripes at that price i could keep a car in storage and fly out there for every event and still be cheaper than some teams pro rally budgets.

 

[Don Kennedy]

How many miles (how much seat time) for that money and time investment? And dirt or paved?

We have hillclimbs here in Eastern PA. Average length is about 1 mile (1 is 2.3 miles). All paved. For one complete weekend (from early Saturday morning till 4 or 5 PM Sunday afternoon) you'll get 10-12 miles of competition. Average cost is $115 per event.

 

[RussR]

>Sounds to me like you need to move to Colorado. We have the
>Colorado Hillclimb Series. $170 per event. Saturday is
>practice, Sunday is race day-best time of 2 runs. Full
>recce, no cats, no restrictors. Tow fund winnings per event
>plus year end winnings. Camp at the event, cookout, drink
>beer, see the sights, hang with friends...We are very lucky!
> I doubt it's safe enough for some of you though-too much
>freedom and fun. Seriously though, consider it next year!!!
>
>Aaron McConnell

That's impressive! Can you provide me with some details on the operation? Where the prize fund comes from? Insurance? Types of roads? Sounds great!

Russ