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Discussion Starter #1
Incase you aren't watching....

There is a big discussion on the Rally America pages about media passes. Some haven't learned the lessons of the past 5 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Media exposure should be put on hold for at least one year.

If that isn't done, start collecting body bags. They will be needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
>Point for Jens.

It isn't about points.

I am very concerned about rally (have been for 5 years). I want to see rally rebuilt with safety first (lower speeds for all). I want everyone to live.
 

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don't cut
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>Media exposure should be put on hold for at least one year.
>
>If that isn't done, start collecting body bags. They will
>be needed.

Sorry Jens, but costs are never going to go down, only up. Insurance, road usage, etc... will only get worse. At the moment many people are already being priced out. The only way to relieve those costs is with outside money. The way to get the outside money is through exposure. Remove the exposure and this truly will become a rich man's only sport.

Don't believe me? NASCAR is the most heavily promoted motorsport in the country, and because of that almost anybody can afford to do some kind of circle track racing. It's dirt cheap.

Dennis Martin
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920-432-4845
 

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your other left, you idiot
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Jens

So, Jens, did you give up smoking yet?


>...safety first...
>I want everyone to live.

press on,
 

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>Don't believe me? NASCAR is the most heavily promoted
>motorsport in the country, and because of that almost
>anybody can afford to do some kind of circle track racing.
>It's dirt cheap.

Sorry to disagree Dennis, but I think you have tried to make a wrong cause-and-effect connection. Folks here in the central Shenandoah vally and all over western and southside VA can afford to race at the local .4 mile dirt track IN SPITE of NASCAR. The NASCAR affiliation is not wanted here, because they have no low level classes that are any where near affordable. The local track owners all over this area create their own low $$ classes which allow the lower income guys to go racing for about a $1000 investment.

NASCAR tends to be avoided as the sanctioning body around here as they tend to raise prices and have only hgiher priced car classes. The mid-sized track owners can attract some of the NASCAR late model races because they are good facilities. But they don't depend exclusively on NASCAR for the weekly programs.

Local circle track racing is cheap in some classes becasue the local tracks and racers control it, not due any help from a large sanctioning body.

OBTW, I agree that we should keep the press coming to rallies. The biz based race teams need it. As a hobby rallier, I want to find ways to help the biz based guys succeed; I expect them to reciprocate to help the hobby guys stay involved too.

Regards,
Mark B.
 

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don't cut
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>Sorry to disagree Dennis, but I think you have tried to make
>a wrong cause-and-effect connection. Folks here in the
>central Shenandoah vally and all over western and southside
>VA can afford to race at the local .4 mile dirt track IN
>SPITE of NASCAR. The NASCAR affiliation is not wanted here,
>because they have no low level classes that are any where
>near affordable. The local track owners all over this area
>create their own low $$ classes which allow the lower income
>guys to go racing for about a $1000 investment.
>

Ok, my bad, I mispoke. I should have used the term circle track racing instead of NASCAR. Circle track would encompass all the sanctioning bodies, just like rally encompasses RA, NASA, CARS, and SCCA. The point is still the same. Circle track racing is promotion oriented, even the little backwoods dirt track races. This promotion allows for local sponsorships and race purses, which in turn allows average guys to be able to afford to race. I "consult" (read drink their beer) for a local late model asphalt team. They have a $30,000 car, $20k of which is in the motor, that they race every thursay all summer long. I think each race costs them about $500 in tires, fuel, misc., etc... The team owner is an average middle class guy, yet he can afford to run this car because he gets enough local sponsorship and race purses to cover the costs. Is he getting rich? Heck no, he probably loses money each season, but it's not enough to drive him out, and he's having a ton of fun doing it. But he wouldn't be doing it if no one showed up to the races. And that takes promotion.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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Where is the doom and gloom?

The 8 post long thread about credentials, those dangerous credentials, OH NOS!



Of are you invisioning death from the 51 post long thread that evolved into giving teams tools to succeed away from the stages and help fund their participation in the sport.


Doesn't matter.


Because what you DON'T get Jens is that if you had it your way and there was no media for a couple years there wouldn't be media for longer then that. Getting press, especially from some of the larger out lets is not something you just get whenever you want. If you loose it you have to wait for it to come back, and that could take a year, or 5, or 10, or maybe it will never happen.. Carefully orchestrated press can bring in more to the coffer for rally america to make more investments into our sport and help lower costs so more competitors that can afford to get into the sport or maybe return.
 

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Keeping media stuff how it is in 2004 is perfect. Should just carry over those rules. Only additions should be *strict* restrictions for "at event" media passes. That would help out those local newspaper guys or whatever that find out 2 days before the event that they are to cover it. Of course, whip together a small training packet they are required to read & sign that they've read it. This packet will show them where to stand and what to expect. I have trained many first timers on the stage before the first car came by cuz I don't want to see blood & guts anymore.

Only other complaints have ever been from those who want to be credentialed, but don't fit the criteria listed, so they don't get credentials (which is the way it should be).

Pete
 

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That is the crux of the discussion.


Don't change has been the theme.

The other stuff has nothing to do with credentialing or on site people.


I dis like parts of the criteria and little bit but I fit within it (occasional freelancer for magazines but mainly do my own thing independently) and understand it. And I think the existing rules are good, partialy for the reasons I dislike parts of them, and the rest for the reasons I don't dis like them.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
>Because what you DON'T get Jens is that if you had it your
>way and there was no media for a couple years there wouldn't
>be media for longer then that.

I think that is a good thing.

>Carefully orchestrated press
>can bring in more to the coffer for rally america to make
>more investments into our sport and help lower costs so more
>competitors that can afford to get into the sport or maybe
>return.

There is that old trickle-down theory again. It wasn't going to work before. It isn't going to work now.

Here are a couple of headlines for you that would make national news....

"Ten spectators killed by rally racing car" That is what sells advertising.

"Rally racing car catches fire and burns down forest".


The general public doesn't care about close racing or any of that. They want crashes, flaming cars, etc. They want blood and guts (not too much, but just enough to satisfy their curiosity). They might even create a TV show "CSI Rally Racing".

You don't believe me? Okay. Fair enough. Just wait a bit.
 

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don't cut
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>
>"Ten spectators killed by rally racing car" That is what
>sells advertising.
>
>"Rally racing car catches fire and burns down forest".
>>
>You don't believe me? Okay. Fair enough. Just wait a bit.

Okay, so those things will only happen if a camera is pointed at the cars? Cuz when there is no camera we never crash, never get hurt, never see people in the woods. Didn't see any Speed cameramen or spectators in the woods where we went off the other day. In fact, I really wish there were some, would have made the whole incident much safer.

This is just absurd. Jens dude, it's time to join the real world.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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So explain this one?

Team goes to rally and does well. Media covers said team. Team goes to sponsor and say look our performances are strong and they garner us exposure. With your assistance we can continue our stong performances and give you exposure, what the team also means is that if you give us money we can afford to keep racing.


Don't think it happens? Look at the widget racing thread about working with their sponsors. Widget and Mayhem's success has garnered them sponsorship, that sponsorship has greatly increased their ability to race and be competitive, their relationship and success can be mutually beneficial and is proving to be so.



Jens I know what you want, you just want to go play on your own in a a desolate peice of land with no one watching, go to wyoming/montana and buy some land and do just that.


Rally has gotten to the point where you need to be well off or sponsored to compete more then a couple times a year. The only way to get sponsorship since we don't get a lot of spectators is through the media. Accept it or don't.
 

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RE: Jens

Yep, so answer the question!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
>So explain this one?
>
>Team goes to rally and does well. Media covers said team.
>Team goes to sponsor and say look our performances are
>strong and they garner us exposure.

That only works for front runners.

>Don't think it happens? Look at the widget racing thread
>about working with their sponsors. Widget and Mayhem's
>success has garnered them sponsorship....

If the factories were running neither Widget nor Mayhem would be on TV. No offense meant.
 
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