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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This posting is to announce that the Manistee Forest Rally Sept 10 2005 is up and will be up-dated often as required. Thank you all very much,we look foreward to a safe, fun event.

Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the mention of our "little" event in the same world as JB's famous MFR in Maine. We thought our small event in Michigan was far enough away to not be offensive to John and his crew. I will call him and apologize and from now on our event will be the "little " MFR, hopefully that will work. Thanks ,we were aware of JB's event and with the "local" presures, we were trying to respect the past "CFR" 2003 event and not use that name even though it is in the same federal forest.
Thank you very much for your E mail to the forum page. Scooter

Discussion Starter · #5 ·
FYI....John Buffum and I talked a few hrs ago, he has no problem with our "LIL" Manistee Forest Rally, here in Michigan. Infact we talked about my daughter who had a crashed hood from the woods, off his SCCA champion ship white and green TR-8 that ran one of the old Northern Lights Rallies in the 80's.

1,812 Posts
>And that "MFR" already means Maine Forest Rally!

What? Did Spitzner and his NWO henchmen copyright "MFR" too? What about the Malton Forest Rally?

Sheesh... what a bunch of girly-men rally has become.

Maybe John Buffum (the original JB) should sue JB Niday for copyright infringement of his intials?

Next rally in the States will be adopting more sissy FIA rules.

Quick! Get me some Valium before I explode......

5 Posts
Does anyone know if I can volunteer for this? It says you have to be 18, but I worked as flying flagsmen for an SCCA event here in Cadillac when I was 13. I'm sure I can get my dad to do ametuer radio operations. I hope Im not turned down, because I live right here in Cadillac!

Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The NASA liability insurance has to be followed,and since the past couple years of the serious problems in rally things have changed.
Having said that,if you are with your dad and he has custody (not visitaion because of a past divorce),and will be with you and sign a waiver, I suggest you come out and enjoy your self at one of the two spectator stages.

Also we have a group of gung ho workers that meet one or two times a month on a saturday and go out in the woods and clean up the spectator areas,practice starts and finishes etc. Then Scooters Promotions provides free grilled hot dogs, chips etc and you BYOB. No one works very hard or long,and we do get a large bunch of RALLY STORIES TOLD ! You are welcome to E me directly and give me a telephone number or have your dad officially register as a worker on our web site and we will be intouch.

THank you for your interest. Youth is very important to our sport.

Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Travis, Thanks for the support,we will save some, sand, dirt, ruts, gravel and fun in the woods for you and your co-driver.
I also have requested the USFS move back all BIG TREES 50 feet further from the "MFR' / lil,MFR, or what ever some one will call our event, stage roads, but I think I fell on deaf ears?? Have fun anyway.. Sorry....scooter/ steviez66

Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Jens. You mean , "Spitzner" is still in the mix,for more than us to expose his hodgepodge mess of brain farts,supported by massive........oops! .....scooter be nice, after all I am already known as, "TMHMIM"??
The Most Hated Man In Michigan!
steviez66 /scooter

289 Posts
What's the real story here as to how this Scooters Promotions outfit could replace Cadillac Forest and its highly experienced organizing committee? How did this new group get the forest permits and effectively usurp one of the best organizing committees ever assembled?

What happened? Is anyone willing to talk? I smell a skunk in the woodpile.

So tell me I'm completely wrong about this. (...like anyone on these forums is shy.)

George Beckerman
(Cranky Old Sceptic)

Discussion Starter · #15 ·
George, This subject can not be explained here. It would take tens of thousands of typed words to just hit the light side of how this came to pass.
This began in the Cadillac area in the early 80's.
No one remembers but , I was the person that back in the 80's obtained a VERBAL OK from the forest service and the city of Cadillac,the Wexford Co. Rd comm, and local law official's, for the initial event held there back then. Things went bad and lead to the end of rally in the area. Not any of my doing, I was running the events back then, in production class.
Now up to the CFR 2003 I obtained the CFR forest service permit no one else.
I have known the principles from wmrscca, for the most part since the late 70's. I have a tremendous amount of respect for their knowledge.
George, I will private message you and if you feel the need to go further,I will pay for the tele call and spend the hours it would take to set up the events that lead to the "MFR"
Also there are Federal Forest Rangers and Marshalls that are on here right now , reading this posting.
And I did not give them the address of the various sites.
I mean, did we really think we were the only ones on here ?

Oh yes, I might add the state of Michigan NDR also has given me total support in 2004,after kicking us out also in the 80's.

Anyway, that ought to give some of you enough information to better realize rally in this state is at a dangerous level. Because the stuff that has came to pass in this area. all of us need to tread lightly, get along and have good safe events.
Thank you George.
steviez66 / scooter

3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
3,979 Posts
>Because the stuff that has came to pass in this area. all of
>us need to tread lightly, get along and have good safe events.
>Thank you George.
>steviez66 / scooter

Cadillac Forest Rally 2003 wasn't a good, safe event?

Halley ...
I wanna be invited to Jake's low water bridge christening ...

1,812 Posts
Bad blood

Hmmmm.... which post to respond to? Well rather than pick one, thereby implying I am taking sides (which I will not do, nor have the knowledge to do), I choose to reply via the originating post.

From the last few posts it would appear there is some bad blood between parties in Michigan.

Gentlemen: Stand up like men and express your opinions with supporting evidence rather than dripping veiled venom at each other.

Try to get along, or at least tolerate each other. After the past few years of SCCA ProRally behind closed doors political *poison* I would hope y'all learned something. If you didn't learn something from the past few years you weren't paying attention.

Consider yourselves lucky you can rally in Michigan (POR, LSPR, MFR, etc). Here in Connecticut rally is a dirty word unless one is speaking of an enviro-nazi or "gay" rally.

Jens "if my wife was willing to move I would get my sorry butt out of CT in a heartbeat" Larsen

50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
997 Posts
>>>Cadillac Forest Rally 2003 wasn't a good, safe event?
>Halley ...

Yes it was, and was clubrally of the year.
and as you may suspect, scrutiny in all areas was at a very high level being that this was the first club event to run following the accident at Ski Sawmill.

I too wanna be invited to Jake's low water bridge christening ...
(but don't wanna run sweep for it)

9 Posts
RE: Manistee Forest Rally

the following is a concern forwarded from my brother


Dear Forest Neighbor or Visitor:
The Cadillac/Manistee Ranger District of the Huron-Manistee National Forests
has received a request from Scott Strenzel, a local liason of the Sports Car
Club of America (SCCA) for a special use authorization to conduct a one-day
sports car race on Wexford County and National Forest roads in Wexford
County, Michigan. I am seeking input on this proposed event. The race would
occur on September 10, 2005 and involves the use of approximately 25 miles
of roads (See attached map). Participants are timed while racing short
segments of roads. Start and finish line locations would be established on
the roads and spectator areas would be delineated. Approximately 35-70
vehicles are expected to participate and from 150-350 spectators are
expected at one of three spectator areas, along the racing routes. Roads
accessing the race segments would be closed during the race with a road
guard present at all locations. A tow truck, ambulance, and sanitary
facilities would be provided by the event coordinator. An operations plan
which details the event activities would be developed in coordination with
the Forest Service, Wexford County Sheriff's Department, Wexford County Road
Commission, and the event coordinator.
For your convenience, we have provided a comment sheet for you to write your
comments on and returned to us. It would be most helpful to have comments by
March 11, 2005; however, comments will be accepted any time during the
planning process. Please contact Ramona Venegas, Outdoor Recreation Planner,
at (231) 723-6121, ext. 108 if you would like to give input beyond the
comment sheet, have questions regarding the proposal, or would like a copy
of the decision (once completed). If requested, a copy of all comments,
including names and addresses, will be made available to the public.
The Forest Service will inform the requester of its decision regarding a
request for confidentiality, and where the request is denied, the submission
will be returned and the requester notified that the comments may be
resubmitted with or without name and address.
District Ranger

Questions from a (former) potential competitor:

1. Why doesn't Scooter/StevieZ66 use his REAL NAME in registering for
Specialstage, which not only violates their terms of use, but immediately
creates the impression he's trying to hide something?

2. The scoping letter shows that Scott Strenzel appears to have associated
himself with the SCCA in trying to obtain the road permit. Whether
deliberate or a misunderstanding, it would seem critical that he take the
steps needed to convey accurate information to the Forest Service.

3. If Scott is concerned about what the Forest Service reads on
Specialstage, maybe he needs to cut out the crap, starting with owning up to
his real identity rather than continuing in this cloak and dagger crap.

"tread lightly" and "get along" should include "be honest".

There are a lot of potential entrants, mostly new guys, who certainly would
love to see a Michigan rally, but at least deserve to know the REAL NAME of
the promoter to whom they are sending their money.

4. NASA Rallysport, in my opinion, should suggest that their event promoters
take some efforts to represent themselves as a NASA event to government

Any confusion or sleight of hand during the permitting process would reflect
poorly on the competence of the promoter, sanctioning bodies, and the sport.

5. If there were problems in the past, fix the problems, and don't turn this
all into some kind of egomaniacal personal pissing death match.

Because it would appear that the prime organizer of this event is either not
capable, interested or able to accurately representing WHO he is, and WHO he
represents to the Forest Service and to the public, I am left wondering what
else is distorted, omitted, or ignored.

When we run events, we are asked to TRUST our LIVES to organizers and
volunteers. I can't TRUST someone who isn't sure WHO he is.

A little honesty and effort to be clear would go a long ways here, but as it
stands now, we're going to Canada that weekend.

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