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This is a reminder of the Spectating Plan for the Brockway Mountain Stage at LSPR this October.
We do not want anyone to try to access the "Jump" and be surprised and angered when turned away.
Please pass this message on to others in the Rally community as you see fit.

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The Brockway Mountain Stage and its jump have become famous in the U.S. Rally community. After the 2001 Lake Superior ProRally (LSPR) and Keweenaw ClubRally, competitors, spectators, organizers, workers, and the local law enforcement raised many concerns of spectator and competitor safety. The organizing committee for the 2002 LSPR recently met to discuss the safety concerns and possible solutions.
There were two major safety concerns, people standing in the impact zone after the jump and spectators walking in and out of the stage during competition. Controlling of where people stand could possibly be accomplished with better banner placement and more marshals to keep the spectators behind it. The bigger problem is that the only way to get to the most popular jump area is to walk down the stage, and many spectators like to only watch the top cars and then leave. One competitor said, "It looked like a shopping mall parking lot, there were people on both sides of the road and a woman with a baby carriage on the outside of a corner."

We looked at many possible solutions, getting the local fire department or business community to charge spectating fees and help control traffic, mass transport of spectators, stopping after 20 cars to let people walk out, moving the finish line, not allowing anyone on the stage, and even canceling the stage entirely.

After much debate, this is the plan for the 2002 LSPR and Keweenaw ClubRally Brockway Mountain Stage:

1. This stage will be run only once.
2. Marshals will be posted after the end of the stage at the intersection of Brockway Mountain Drive and M-26, only officially credentialed Press will be allowed into the end of the stage and the "jump". Unauthorized persons attempting to gain access to the stage may be ticketed and removed.
3. Marshals will address the Press as to where they can and cannot stand. No one will be allowed past the "jump" area. All Press must stay in place until the final sweep vehicle has cleared the stage and the road is open to non-rally traffic.
4. Spectators will be allowed to walk in from the start of the stage 1/2 mile to the first major corner. No one will be allowed beyond this area. Marshals will direct the Spectators as to where they can and cannot stand.
5. All Press and Spectators must be in place 30 minutes before the First Car is scheduled to start.
6. No one will be allowed in from either end after Car "0" has entered the stage.
7. If anyone is anywhere on the stage in a place they should not be, they will be asked to move. If they choose not to, the stage will be canceled.

Our hope is that this year the spectators will show, they will follow instructions, and that they understand and respect our safety concerns. If all goes well, in future years we may once again allow spectating at the "jump". We know our plan will generate much debate in the Rally Community. Please understand the decision has been made and it is a condition of road use permission. We wanted to share the solution with you early so you may plan your working, competing, crewing, spectating and press activities for LSPR 2002 accordingly.
 

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Wow now isn't this great- something that attracts attention, has hundreds of people driving from hours away to see and now you are going to turn them away? Who did you learn marketing from, Kurt Spitzner? Instead of paying for banner tape, why don't you sell 2x4 banners to local business, stack them 2 high and run them down both sides of the impact area of the jump? The money you get from that pay some rent-a-cops to keep control of the cluster. It never ceases to amaze me why no one can turn a dime from rally- one of the worst run business' out there.:'(
 

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What part of "it is a condition of road use permission" was hard for you to understand? Would smaller words help?

If they don't do this, there's no Brockway at all. Is that clearer?

BW
 

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My friends and I are contemplating driving 8 hours to go to LSPR and now that we cant go to the jump are not sure if it would be worth skipping a day of college, going on a long drive and then watching.

are the rest of the spectator spots worth the 8 hour drive?
 

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Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

Was it right to put spectators in small fenced areas at Cherokee Trails just because the Forest Service wanted to? No, and that single action did more to hurt fans perception of ProRally than anyone imagined. I've seen the repercussions of that bad decision all over the internet, on rally news sites and even in Autoweek! People who don't even know what rally is, know that spectating at CT was FUBAR.

This is just one more area where the unmanaged, unbudgeted, full speed ahead growth of ProRally is hurting the sport. Of course you need road permissions and can't run the rally without them. But before you use that as a sole excuse, why don't you analyze WHY you would lose the road.

Don't jump all over J.D.--he's just speaking up for those who wonder, "If it ain't broke, why is everybody under the hood." This stage has run how many times? And when exactly did it become a problem? As an organizer, you see the small problems and solve them any way you can. J.D.'s referring to the big problem that can cause your small problems, and he's sure not out of line for that.

Message to SCCA: If rally isn't prepared to handle the growth--THEN STOP GROWING IT! As an organizer, when you have a crisis that's a symptom of mismanagement from above, direct your problem solving efforts upwards--towards the real cause--not downwards where it will affect the fans and community that love rally for its intimacy.

Lastly, to make matters worse, you're allowing the media in! :( Great--encourage the great American couch potato to sit at home and watch rally on TV instead of experiencing it first hand. How about you keep the cameras away, too, just to make it fair?
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

I'm intrigued with #7.

7. If anyone is anywhere on the stage in a place they should not be, they will be asked to move. If they choose not to, the stage will be canceled.

Is it not possible to have the proper authority to remove them as opposed to cancelling the stage? Aren't the odds of this happening rather high?
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

Surely there are other reasons to go to LSPR besides the jump.
maybe the answer is to not run the stage at all. I am sure it is fun, but it would save teams from having to buy/bring tarmac tires or destroying their gravel tires.
It will have to be decided if it is worth it for the media to go, since they have to arrive early and are not allowed to leave until sweep, which will eliminate getting to any other stages for possibly the whole day
 

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don't cut
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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

As I read it, the photographers will not be allowed to be at their favorite spot anyway.
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

So if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it did it make a sound? }>
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

I think Jon understood the message I was trying to relay(a.k.a the can of worms I was trying to open) I am looking at the bigger picture and not the small problem this causes the organizers. Belive you me I hold organizers in the highest regards and I am greatful for the tremendous amount of work that they endure for the little gratitude they receive. My shot was aimmed at the SCCA, and more specificly the terrible job they are doing with the marketing and growing of the sport. Pro rally is in fact the worst run business I have ever had to deal with and I am still trying to figure out which end is up. Are they a non-profit, member run sanctioning body that provides insurance for organizers to run events? Thats what I feel they represent themselves as on paper. But in fact what are they? If they are marketing the sport and trying to control sponsorship dollars of a PROFESIONAL race series than they are sorely misguided. A non-profit sanctioning body should not have there hands in the growth of the sport at all in my eyes. I truely hate getting into these types of internet rants because they are so impersonal but I would like to defend my position and maybe impress upon someone that YOU CAN MAKE MONEY with prorally. Lots of money. People pay BILLIONS to watch cars go in circles for hours. Millions are spent on infommercials. Organizers should make money for there hard work and time invested. Ever look at rally outside of the US? Is there anywhere besides here that a manufacture can broadcast there product to a richer audience on someone elses nickel? I have not the time nor patience to dive deeper into this subject at the momment-but I am very interested to see the approach that USAC tkes on this whole thing. Maybe a sanctioning body that does only that, and some for profit promotions and marketing.


JD:(
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

>I'm intrigued with #7.
>
>7. If anyone is anywhere on the stage in a place they should
>not be, they will be asked to move. If they choose not to,
>the stage will be canceled.
>
>Is it not possible to have the proper authority to remove
>them as opposed to cancelling the stage? Aren't the odds of
>this happening rather high?

In general, you don't have the authority to move anybody who doesn't want to go. If on public property, they're violating no law except possibly trespass, and that's iffy. Thus law enforcement commonly isn't helpful, although I don't know the exact situation on Brockway.

In many places, you have the right to CONTROL the road, but not CLOSE it, and this makes a big difference.

Stages have been cancelled - or been close to being cancelled - because of spectators who will not behave. In this case, I believe the authorities are the ones who will withdraw the permit - thus cancelling the stage - if they're not happy with the safety precautions.

Bruce
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

There is also the logistical problem... The only way to move around near that stage is to move along the stage itself, and that is exactly what the organizers are trying to avoid.

JBLewis

BTW, why are you all getting bent out of shape now? This posting is just a REMINDER, this plan was publicly presented several months ago.
 

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don't cut
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Here's a little firsthand info from someone who's actually been 4 feet over the top of Brockway Mtn.:

The takeoff is very fast, very narrow, and completely blind. If you do not hit it correctly, it will send you off to the right side of the road. We cannot see over the crest, and therefore cannot see how many people are there and whether the LZ is clear.

The LZ is about 20 meters later, and is actaully right after a small dip. This means the road is going up while the car is going down. The result is a hellacious impact the bottoms out event the best front suspensions. The LZ is also very uneven and narrow. The end result is that the car immediately shoots in one direction or another (you don't know which one till it does it), and then bounces back into the air. It's kinda hard to steer when the tires aren't on the ground. The car will continue to bounce and shoot one or two more times, and as a driver all you can do is stay in the gas and aim the wheels in the direction of the road,hoping that when they make contact they will pull the car straight. When you finally get control of the car again, you are immediately confronted with downhill, off camber, medium right that has washboard in the braking zone. Since you have way too much speed from accelerating out of you landing, braking for this turn is a real challenge. Braking for anything else (ie. spectator on line or in the road) is impossible.

So, knowing all this, ask yourself, do you really want to put yourself as a spectator in this kind of situation? A situation where the driver is going very fast, has little control, and absolutely no margin for error? If you're stupid enuf to stand there, then think about the position you are putting me in as a driver. That's like handing me a loaded gun with a hair trigger, and saying "point it at me, but don't shoot". Please, Please, Please don't put me in that position.

Bottom line is this. I am paying to run these roads, and the spectators aren't. Until such time as I am PAID to drive, the priority goes to the competitors.

There are literally hundreds of great spots to see LSPR. I know, cuz I spectated it for years. It's definatly worth your time to go, and I guarentee you'll get a good show, but leave Brockway to the Pro's and catch it on Speed Channel

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

"If it ain't broke, why is everybody under the
>hood." This stage has run how many times? And when exactly
>did it become a problem?

I saw the spectators at the jump last year. There were so many people there that a minor incident (like Jim Anderson's slide into the bushes from 3? years ago) could have killed someone. There were far too many spectators for the limited number of marshals to control adequately, and the access to that point is along the stage road. (I heard that some of the spectators were standing in the ruts Jim left...) Given the choices, I think the organizers are doing the right thing.

And yes, the Delaware delta is a great place. Very few people get it right, but it is always entertaining.

Adrian
 

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RE: Complaining twice is twice as much fun!

<rant>
Here's the thing.... (And if not for some mitigating circumstances I would have done this) No one (other than the organizers) have taken a weekend and gone up there, looked at the road and the situation and reported back to the organizers: "Here's an outside view, this is what I think might be done."

There are still shortages of workers, and certainly the ranks of the organizing groups are not swelling...

For those complaining that Performance Rally is growing willy nilly without the infrastructure to support it, I say "get out of your car for a year and help organize your local event!"

</rant>

JBLewis
 

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RE: Just because it's required--doesn't mean it's right.

Quit griping. Plain and simple. You can't be at the jump...deal with it. Sure it would be fun to see it...but Bruce made it abundantly clear no spectators or no stage. I know plenty of people who will be extremely pissed if that stage has to be cancelled because some idiot didn't follow the rules. Deal with it for this year and if everyone behaves then maybe we'll get to go back next year. Don't screw it up!!!!

And besides you should go to LSPR because it's another great midwest event put on by some hardworking people. There are sure to be plenty of other good places to spectate. Or better yet...if you want to be "right in the action" WORK!!!!! I KNOW that they can use workers.

Anyway, that's my $.02.

-Dave
 
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