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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Brockway Mountain Stage and its jump have become famous in the U.S. Rally community. After the 2001 Lake Superior ProRally (LSPR) and Keweenaw ClubRally, competitors, spectators, organizers, workers, and the local law enforcement raised many concerns of spectator and competitor safety. The organizing committee for the 2002 LSPR recently met to discuss the safety concerns and possible solutions.

There were two major safety concerns, people standing in the impact zone after the jump and spectators walking in and out of the stage during competition. Controlling of where people stand could possibly be accomplished with better banner placement and more marshals to keep the spectators behind it. The bigger problem is that the only way to get to the most popular jump area is to walk down the stage, and many spectators like to only watch the top cars and then leave. One competitor said, "It looked like a shopping mall parking lot, there were people on both sides of the road and a woman with a baby carriage on the outside of a corner."

We looked at many possible solutions, getting the local fire department or business community to charge spectating fees and help control traffic, mass transport of spectators, stopping after 20 cars to let people walk out, moving the finish line, not allowing anyone on the stage, and even canceling the stage entirely.

After much debate, this is the plan for the 2002 LSPR and Keweenaw ClubRally Brockway Mountain Stage:

1. This stage will be run only once.
2. Marshals will be posted after the end of the stage at the intersection of Brockway Mountain Drive and M-26, only officially credentialed Press will be allowed into the end of the stage and the "jump". Unauthorized persons attempting to gain access to the stage may be ticketed and removed.
3. Marshals will address the Press as to where they can and cannot stand. No one will be allowed past the "jump" area. All Press must stay in place until the final sweep vehicle has cleared the stage and the road is open to non-rally traffic.
4. Spectators will be allowed to walk in from the start of the stage 1/2 mile to the first major corner. No one will be allowed beyond this area. Marshals will direct the Spectators as to where they can and cannot stand.
5. All Press and Spectators must be in place 30 minutes before the First Car is scheduled to start.
6. No one will be allowed in from either end after Car "0" has entered the stage.
7. If anyone is anywhere on the stage in a place they should not be, they will be asked to move. If they choose not to, the stage will be canceled.

Our hope is that this year the spectators will show, they will follow instructions, and that they understand and respect our safety concerns. If all goes well, in future years we may once again allow spectating at the "jump". We know our plan will generate much debate in the Rally Community. Please understand the decision has been made and it is a condition of road use permission. We wanted to share the solution with you early so you may plan your working, competing, crewing, spectating and press activities for LSPR 2002 accordingly.
 

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>One competitor said, "It looked like a shopping mall parking
>lot, there were people on both sides

Actually, it looked more like the inside of a shopping mall!

"The new Oldmobiles are in early this year".

But seriously, I have to agree with Kevin.

I don't see how they could come up with the manpower to manage the crowd.

It's amazing how a crowd doesn't think.

If any of those individuals were standing by themselves on that hill, I don't believe they would stand on the road with cars wizzing by few feet from their noses.
 

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Kevin;

It is a real shame that the place I consider the best spectating points in all of North America will be shut down. But we all understand that this has to be done for the safety of everyone, but it is still heart breaking.

I do hope that the organizers will find at least two other spectating areas for the hundreds of people that normally park out on Brockway that will now be displaced. You will have hundreds of extra people looking for a place to view from that have not made their way down to the hotdog feed in the past.

The overall attendance of spectators is up some 20 to 30% since last year for the entire series, and if the series is as close as it looks like it will be at the end of the year, you could have thousands of people to manage. I suggest putting in several offical spectating points and let the large number possible spectating areas dilute the crowds.

Jeff Burmeister
getting line for a press pass now
 

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Good suggestion, but finding and training the extra marshals to man these areas will be the problem. I don't know any rally that's overstaffed.

BW
 

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Absolutely agree with that...

But a truly good marshall is also inventive... They always have extra marshall vests with them, a waiver sheet, wrist bands and a really good voice that can scream...

"Okay!!! Now that Everyone is well back from the Stage Road. I need three Volunteers that want to stand out here with me in this really great viewing area and play 'King of the Hill' with all of the other people wanting to be out here with us!!!"

Onsite Outsourcing is what we call this in my company...

Jeff Burmeister
SpecialStage.com
 

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I support the LSPR comittee 100% on this issue. Even though it may not seem like it, my first concern is safety. This sport is not worth killing someone, which was a very real possiblility last year. My second concern is that we/I get to run the stage. This is THE stage I look forward to each year. I loved it when we got to run it twice but I understand why that isn't feasible. This solution seems like it will solve the problem without requiring more workers (which are not readily available). Thanks to all the LSPR organizers and workers that have found a good solution to a very real problem.

Mark Utecht
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Finding extra marshals is one thing, finding a spot that is easy to get to and is worth watching is another.
Most spectators want to arrive at the last minute, watch the top guys and leave. Walking down the side of a hot stage is kind of dangerous.
 

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>2. Marshals will be posted after the end of the stage at the
>intersection of Brockway Mountain Drive and M-26, only
>officially credentialed Press will be allowed into the end
>of the stage and the "jump". Unauthorized persons
>attempting to gain access to the stage may be ticketed and
>removed.

Cool, but here's an idea. Put in a couple controls and we'll race back down to M-26! As long as you're gonna go through the work to block off fun twisty road, might as well go the extra bit and let us race on it. Oh boy, can you imagine how much fun it would be racing DOWN the mountain. Even the P-class cars could get some big air going downhill. Whoa, stop salivating Dennis.....

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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>Oh boy, can you imagine how much fun it would be racing DOWN the
>mountain. Even the P-class cars could get some big air going >downhill. Whoa, stop salivating Dennis.....

Ask Dillon if I wasn't wondering that very thing aloud during the transit that followed Brockway 2001 ...

That hairpin left a few tenths from the finish really would be a hot spectator spot - if you like your wrecks laced with the smell of burnt brakes!

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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looks like the spectators are getting screwed again just like in tenn. well i can scratch lspr off my to see list this year.
we've all been cherokee trailed again!
 

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This is my favorite stage in North America, and believe me nothing jacks you up more than the spectators at the jumps. However, last year when I had people actually standing on the spot where I apex a corner then I think crowd control is necessary. I passed less than 6 feet from a lady pushing a baby in a stroller and I had to be going close to 100mph! The whole scene kind of reminded me of the old David Caridine movie "Death Race 2000".

At all costs Pro Rally needs to avoid an appearance on 60 minutes.
 

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There are other great places to spectate at LSPR. The Delaware Delta comes to mind immediately, plus there are a lot of points which are not designated spectator areas that are very reachable. I hate to see spectating at Brockway scrapped, too, and I do believe there is a way to do it more safely, but the nature of the stage (only one way in/out -- along the stage road) makes it tough. If you've ever been there to see the chaos, you would understand.
 

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I'll be direct. The higher the speed, the more dangerous it is. To improve the safety, don't allow a tire change or service between the gravel stages and Brockway. SCCA has several series for people who like the high cornering forces that come with race tires; they take place on tracks with guardrail and gravel traps for good reasons.
 

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Does anyone remember Michelle Mouton's quote after running the Group B Audi up Pike's Peak? It was something along the lines of:

"If all of you guys had REAL balls you'd race DOWN the hill."

She won the race up the hill!

Rob Bohn

>Cool, but here's an idea. Put in a couple controls and we'll
>race back down to M-26! As long as you're gonna go through
>the work to block off fun twisty road, might as well go the
>extra bit and let us race on it. Oh boy, can you imagine
>how much fun it would be racing DOWN the mountain. Even the
>P-class cars could get some big air going downhill. Whoa,
>stop salivating Dennis.....
 

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>I'll be direct. The higher the speed, the more dangerous it
>is. To improve the safety, don't allow a tire change or
>service between the gravel stages and Brockway. SCCA has
>several series for people who like the high cornering forces
>that come with race tires; they take place on tracks with
>guardrail and gravel traps for good reasons.

I'm 100% with Doug on this one. Question is, can things be arranged to keep the Copper Harbor service before Brockway (for safety's sake - better to send everyone onto tarmac with as solid a car as possible) but preclude the one after? Supps? A route from Brockway to Deleware that avoids Copper Harbor? A really tight transit? Mark the tires in the Brockway ATC and make sure the same marks are there at the Deleware ATC? Should someone insist on running race rubber up Brockway then let 'em run Deleware on the same tires ...

I know at least one entry that claimed a stage win (tie) running the same tires they started the rally on despite their adversary running wide, low-profile tarmac tires. ;-)

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/LSPR/brockway.jpg

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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Rob Bohn said:
>"If all of you guys had REAL balls you'd race DOWN the
>hill."

I think it was more along the lines, 'Let's separate the men from the boys and race DOWN this sucker.'

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/moved/Michelle.jpg

Kind of an unfortunate sentiment since I fear that PR mess led to the 1986 collaboration between Bobby Unser and the baddest Quattro ever let loose in anger on gravel. Some members of this forum might share what the German-speaking Audi mechanics had to say about Bobby's car setup skills and/or driving ability that week. :eek:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/wrohrl.jpg

PPIHC Rookie, Walter Rohrl, was kind enough to use the same car to lop HALF a MINUTE off Unser's overall record the following year - and simultaneously vanquish the three-car, Vatanen/Zanussi/Mehta-Mehta, Peugeot 205 team managed by then-future Ferrari F1 savior Jean Todt.

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/inside1.jpg

What a year to spend a week at the hillclimb!

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/87PPIHC.htm

But back to the thread!! Let's separate the men from the boys and race DOWN that Brockway Mountain sucker!

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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I was in a hurry this morning, let me continue, they say only press allowed to the jump well i was at tenn and every tom dick and harry had a press cred. like anybody w/a web site and a line of ##### got a pass. then when i asked about it at the press reg. table the guy said well that only green vests could walk down a stage. so the next day i get out there and boom, every one w/a press pass roaming freely, me on the other hand stuck behind a fence. see i live in wellsboro so rally is in my blood. so yes u are there to entertain me, i support ur event by going to it spending my money and spreading the rally word. see i can drive on a dirt road every day as fast as i wish so u guys ripping through the woods is nothing new , i go for the near misses and the wrecks and the support i can give to any racer out there. like helping change a tire after a wreck, or handing over that last bottle of water i have to keep a co driver going.but to take the only tarmac stage in the us and make it so u can walk in only 1/2 mile! i might as well go to the local drag strip and watch them run if ur going to shut it off at the first turn. i travel to maine and the ppl and rally organizers are wonderful, they let spectators choose there spot and view, i think that the rally spectators of the past should step up to all the newbi rally fans and tell them hy ur to close or well thats not really a safe spot. dont just assume every one has common sense, but also dont assume they dont.i just feel that i was going to attend the Lspr but now after a very bad bitter taste in my mouth from tenn. im already debating on whether i want to go through the trouble of traveling 1200 or so miles and being herded behind a fence and watch polish rally.com ppl roam down the stage to a nice spot b/c they have some website!
 
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