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Discussion Starter #1
I got involved in a licensing reciprocity thing on another website, but because it applies to multiple sanctioning bodies I want to vent here. There should be complete licensing reciprocity between these various sanctioning bodies!

I am not interested in finger-pointing, snot-nosed, sandbox comments.

The rally community needs to come together rather than be split farther apart. Each sanctioning body has the right to put on the best events they can. That will foster proper competition between rival groups. however licensing reciprocity should be pushed by ALL competitors to their respective sanctioning body's leaders.
 

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I'll start the controversy on this one with the following:

We should have reciprocity to allow us to run events but not to score championship points.

In order to score championship points, you should have to hold the license of the sanctioning body.
 

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A sanctioning body needs revenue to function.

Some is made from licensing.

You should not begrudge them their choice of a business model because you cannot afford (or find the extra cost and application process a hassle for)multiple licenses.
 

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straight at T
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>I'll start the controversy on this one with the following:
>
>We should have reciprocity to allow us to run events but not
>to score championship points.
>
>In order to score championship points, you should have to
>hold the license of the sanctioning body.

Agreed. In fact the SCCA-CARS reciprocity agreement (sort of) worked like this.

SCCA competitors could run CARS events on their SCCA licenses, but would not score CARS championship points. To do that, they had to get a CARS license (by joining a Canadian club and then applying for the license). The other issue was that, technically, the car has to meet the CARS prep/class rules if you run on a CARS license, but only had to be legal under the SCCA rules if you ran on your SCCA license.

CARS competitors were required to join the SCCA to run an event, but this allowed them to score points, even if they were running on their CARS licence. There was no real incentive for a CARS license-holder to get a SCCA license, but the SCCA got the membership revenue. The car could meet the CARS rules.

Regardless of the license, national entrants scored points towards the NARC.

Adrian
 

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How about the fact that you are only supposed to hold a license from your country of citizenship unless you get an exemption from the ASN of that country? The result of this rule is that Canadians are only supposed to hold CARS licenses and US citizens are only supposed to hold SCCA licenses. (or NASA, I'm not sure if they are recognized by the ASN in the US) Each ASN is recognized by the FIA and the rules concerning the holding of licenses are set by the FIA.

Here in North America, we are a long way from Paris, so who really cares?

Last year CARS license holders could score points in the U.S. as long as they were SCCA members. SCCA license holders could not score points in Canada.

Why can't, for a modest fee, competitors be allowed to register for each series and score points in each series?

I realize that vehicle rules are different, but by how much? In production classes the rules have been moving closer in recent years, the cage rules are modestly different, what else am I missing?
 

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That's fine for FIA listed events. Doesn't apply otherwise. So...I guess NASA can't accept other licenses/memberships for their national championship. Of course, I'm only shooting from the lip, and may be wrong.
 

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Joe,

R/A and NRS can do as they please.
NASA Rally Sport accepts CARS license from Canadian residents.
Its an issue of CARS taking the R/A or NRS license!

I think the bigger problem is which US events are going to be included in the CARS owned North American Rally Cup.

Sorry to upset the "nest" some more but you need to get your facts straight!

JKS
 

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I'm just not sure what applies any more. It used to be (when all SCCA PRO Rallies were FIA listed) that competitors had to use the license of their home country or get permission from their home country's ASN to run SCCA's FIA listed events. It's not that it was a particular problem. The competitor just had to make sure he/she had taken care of the paperwork. Of course, it only mattered if the competitor wanted to run FIA rallies in other countries, where FIA (or FISA) could block the entry. I, too, would like to see a common licensing procedure, with cross recognition. To work, it requires agreement as to licensing qualification. If Body A requires schooling and experience to obtain a national license and Body B gives licenses to anyone who can come up with a greasy $100 bill, then there will be problems getting Body A to recognize Body B's licensees, especially as regards any assurances given to the insurors.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
>We should have reciprocity to allow us to run events but not
>to score championship points.

Makes 100% sense to me. Is reasonable and fair to all.
 
G

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>Joe,
>
>R/A and NRS can do as they please.
>NASA Rally Sport accepts CARS license from Canadian
>residents.
>Its an issue of CARS taking the R/A or NRS license!
>
>I think the bigger problem is which US events are going to
>be included in the CARS owned North American Rally Cup.
>
>Sorry to upset the "nest" some more but you need to get your
>facts straight!
>
>JKS


Will NRS be honoring SCCA/ RA licenses for 2005?

There are a lot of "club" guys in the midwest who are more interested in that than the NARC.

thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yesterday on the RA site I was semi-kidding around about an agreement being finished by the end of business today (December 17, 2004).

I am not kidding when I write this should be hammered out in the next few days or weeks. In the future if licensing rules for a particular sanctioning body change significantly, then the reciprocity agreement could be reviewed and changed as needed.

An SCCA CiruitRally license would probably not be suitable for a rally license, so for the time being SCCA could be left out of the agreement.

In alphabetical order: Epp, Havir, Shirley should be pushed by their respective license holders to hammer something out by the end of this year.
 
G

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could you clarify what the former SCCA license holders (that are going to grandfather into RA) can expect with regards to being able to run NASA events?

I see from the NSR website, that two events are planned for Michigan.

thanks
 

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don't cut
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Actually, I am quite happy if I could have 2 or 3 licenses. A CARS license doesn't make much sense for some one in Texas but NASA and RA do as both have events within tow range. Just so long as a feud doesn't break out where is you have a license in Org a, you can not race with Org b. This has happened in the past with other race groups. Like SCCA back in the 50s and 60s. If you raced "professionally" you could not race with SCCA. Hence Ted Tappett.
 

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>A sanctioning body needs revenue to function.
>
>Some is made from licensing.
>
>You should not begrudge them their choice of a business
>model because you cannot afford (or find the extra cost and
>application process a hassle for)multiple licenses.



I'm going to begrudge part of this model, because it stinks.

Lic. fees are ok, one time, one body. I belong to the Lic. body I want or due to location, can get the most benefit from personally. I as a competitor am giving the promoter (note I did not mean organizer) the product to flesh out. They in turn set up the event be it for the love or the sport, cause, or money.

Any "Sanctioning Body" should feed (not lead) from the top down. Not from the near top, or the middle, on the side, or the bottom. This has been my experiance during all of my non-racing organizatonal experiance on the local, state, and national levels. Be it a convention, banquet, fundraiser, or in this case a rally; the "sanctioning body" defines its per capita fee (from zero to infinity) in agreed upon terms before any "event" is sanctioned and pitched to the prospective attendees.

In other words it is part of the entry/registration fee to be paid and is considered overhead or the starting point of organization for the event just like insurance. There is no need for multiple lic. to race. Only if you want points for yourself or your sponsor.

Bernie
 

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>In other words it is part of the entry/registration fee to
>be paid and is considered overhead or the starting point of
>organization for the event just like insurance. There is no
>need for multiple lic. to race. Only if you want points for
>yourself or your sponsor.

In this scenario, if I run primarily NARACARS, and have a NARACARS license, _and_ pay a fixed licensing fee as part of my entry fee, and you run a NARACARS event without a NARACARS license, I'm subsidizing your entry. Why should I do that?

If you intend on promoting this model, I'd suggest the fair way to do it is to have a lower entry fee for those people who have a license with the sanctioning body. Yes, that's the ticket, actually.

Just make the event $400 for NARACARS license holders and $475 for non-NARACARS license holders. Or charge them $50 for a NARACARS license.

Cheers,
- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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>
>could you clarify what the former SCCA license holders (that
>are going to grandfather into RA) can expect with regards to
>being able to run NASA events?
>
>I see from the NSR website, that two events are planned for
>Michigan.
>
>thanks

Matt,

As of this time there is no reciprocation between R/A and NASA Rally Sport. If you have not run a NRS regional event in the past you get one event by only buying a memebership. The second event requires a licenses.

John K. Shirley
NASA Rally Sport
 

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>Just so long as a feud doesn't break out where is you have a
>license in Org a, you can not race with Org b. This has
>happened in the past with other race groups. Like SCCA back
>in the 50s and 60s. If you raced "professionally" you could
>not race with SCCA. Hence Ted Tappett.

That really cannot happen again as the anti-trust laws have developed sufficiently over the years such that a sanctioning body would not dare try that kind of nonsense. They can only make you remove stickers of a competitor organization from your car.
 

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Since there is ZERO promotional value attached to the North American Rally Cup, I don't think anyone cares who wins, let alone which US events "count"
 
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