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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure most competitors are more than happy with the new timing/starting clocks at the ProRally events. However, what seems to have been forgotten is the Starter should still be monitoring the competitors to ensure they are not leaving the line with seconds still on the clock. It was "frustrating" to say the least to watch a competitor ahead of us in Maine leave the line with time still on the clock. This happened on the first 3 stages (we retired at the end of SS3 so I don't know that this continued to happen .... but you could assume it did given the 100% record earlier!!).

With the old system you went on "Go", not on 2 or 1 so why would it be any different with the great BIG clocks!!!
 

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>With the old system you went on "Go", not on 2 or 1 so why
>would it be any different with the great BIG clocks!!!

You did?!?!?!?! Walter Boyce is the only driver I've ever been with who waited for zero.

The start clocks can be made to automatically detect jump starts(as they do in WRC, and almost everywhere else), but this costs money, and RA is not a bottomless pit of funds. Steve Johnson seems to think that ProRally should have NOTHING, including it's "sponsorship" money from Hot Wheels. Hence, no equipment for detecting jump starts. Human start control crews are(rightly) reluctant to call a jump start on a competitor. So, I'd suggest you play the game others play, since things are not going to change.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
But where does that end? If everyone goes on 1 .... then one day someone will go on 2 ... and so on and so on...... Just because some competitors do it doesn't make it right!
 

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You guys must not be rallying where I'm rallying.

Where I rally, competitors practice what the Olympics call "Fair Play", and I can't think of any competitor that a) jumps the start deliberately and b) wouldn't hesitate to point it out to the control worker.

Of course, in the past we've had competitors who felt the need to cheat to win, at any cost; but what sort of win is it if you have to cheat to win? Not a very good one.

Of course, I also know that 90% of our control workers would write it down on the log without a competitor pointing it out. But maybe that's just the west coast workers, and maybe good sportsmanship only happens in ClubRally.

(FWIW, the other 10% of workers are either new or not paying attention)
 

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After reading the rules today and comparing that to what happened at the 4 start controls I worked at Ojibwe, I would agree. I was under the impression that wheels spinning before 0 is acceptable if the plane of start is not broken before 0, but I would read the rules to say a start must begin tight to the start line plane and it must be a standing start, meening no rolling from a foot back or wheel spin before 0.
Most competitors did not spin until 0, but in retrospect, my understanding at the time meant there was a few cars that technically jumped the start at my start line that were not reported. Next time I will know better.
 

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>You guys must not be rallying where I'm rallying.

Comrade Taborskova, you're right on there.
>
>Where I rally, competitors practice what the Olympics call
>"Fair Play", and I can't think of any competitor that a)
>jumps the start deliberately and b) wouldn't hesitate to
>point it out to the control worker.

Ahhhh, but you're rallying in the Great Northwest, and not only the rallying but the culture in general is based on a assumption of fair play.
In some parts of the country, lying, cheating ans in general scambling over one an other is the norm in all aspects of life, and out there at the other end, percieved prestige is really highly important, so anything that can up the percieved prestige must be important enough to do.

We're just too mellow for all that nonsense, maybe its the wonderful nature here!
>
>Of course, in the past we've had competitors who felt the
>need to cheat to win, at any cost; but what sort of win is
>it if you have to cheat to win? Not a very good one.
>
>Of course, I also know that 90% of our control workers would
>write it down on the log without a competitor pointing it
>out. But maybe that's just the west coast workers, and
>maybe good sportsmanship only happens in ClubRally.
>
>(FWIW, the other 10% of workers are either new or not paying
>attention)

Look at this 2-3 threads in as many days about Sportsmanship, tsk tsk..


I leave on '0', and everybody I have ever watched here in the NW does too.
Maybe we're just too stupid to cheat.


John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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If you thought the drama was big after the 'illegal' water bottle filling, wait until somebody get's DQ'd for having their wheels in motion without acceleration with 1s left on the clock.

I doubt very much that anyone is trying to cheat, so unless it's flagrant (>1s), I won't say a peep.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Even it is only a second per start the competitor is gaining 10-15 seconds per event!!

The point of this post was that I didn't see this happening much when the cars were verbally counted down and the Starter was physically involved in the process ....now they give you your card and turn away and chat with a friend or get set for the next car. They should still be monitoring the competitors.
 

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Here's a good one: the 2004 Safety and Operations Manual requires timing to be done in 10ths of second. Why worry about 10th of second at the finish where there is zero control at the start line? Let's see, cart-horse, or was it horse-cart?

This is what happens when the people writing the rules they have no understanding of what is required to put them into operation. Glad to see that some people observed the real-world absurdity of worrying about accurate finish timing with no start line control or enforcement.

Ray Hocker
Chairman, Rim of the World Rally
 

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In the worker school for detroit region we were told to still count out the start following along with (simultaneously with the clock) at Sno*drift I didnt work the start line for any of my stages so I'm not aware of this as being a problem. At LSPR I will definately pay attention.


Nick
(no fancypants sig yet)
 

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Good call Ray.

Maybe Masano can design something that can be incorporated in the start clock, something like a photocell that gives a warning to the start marshalls in case of a jump start.

McVeigh you never cease to surprise me.

I wait for 0 and hope that karma will bite the cheaters in their a$$.

Cheers
M.Samli
 

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Having worked Rim for 8 of the last 9 years (new job this year sorry Ray) I can tell we would note someone jumping the start.Most of the stage workers I know are experianced Rally folk. Of course at the CRS we are a pretty tight knit group so , like the NW we may be working under a differant set of circumstances. In the future I would lodge a protest.

Tom Grossmann
 

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>Maybe Masano can design something that can be incorporated
>in the start clock, something like a photocell that gives a
>warning to the start marshalls in case of a jump start.

Sure would be easy. But what would their price be for $15 worth of parts? I bet it's more than $15.

>McVeigh you never cease to surprise me.

:* I'm just saying don't get everyone worked up about writing in the log that so and so left with 0.5 still left to go, because I'd say it's too close for a person to call objectivly. If you have time to see them move, look at the clock, and there's still time left, then fine. But let's not put tooo much outcome responsibility into the hands of the barely-trained volunteers.


Patrick "Just Full of Surprises" McVeigh
 

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Last time I worked a start line, my solution was to do the countdown with my arm right across the windshield and fingers directly in front of the driver's face. I indicated 5-4-3-2-1, held my hand steady on 1, then lifted out of the way on zero and jumped back to get away from the gravel spray. When I did it that way, not one car even rolled before zero. The same can be done with a start flag resting on the windshield, blocking the driver's view until zero. That gives you a slight head start in jumping out of the way of the rocks.
 

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That's how I was trained for the California events too: cover the windshield with the start flag and lift on 0. That was before the new timing clocks though - I haven't worked a start since they began using those.
 
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