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Is it time to separate the championship into AWD and 2WD events?

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Should there be separate events for 2WD and 4/AWD vehicles?
This would mean more events, but double the work.
P, G2 and G5 vs. PGT, GN and Open.

I always hear COMPETITORS complain that 2WD don't have a CHANCE driving with AWD cars and they always start in the back of the pack.
Well, back of the pack means that you need to step up your speed factor anyway, but, 2WD competitors could battle it out among each other.
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
>Isn't this what different classes are for? What about the
>Woodner Cup? Do you mean two totally seperate events or two
>events within an event?
>
>Pete

Two events, two different dates, stand alone championship. :+

Whiplash Rallye Sport
(Rallying is not a crime)
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess I should explain a little more.
For exsample.
Turn some regional events into "2WD" national events.
Instead Ojibwe, run Headwaters as a 2WD national.
I heard some many times, "once all the AWD cars get through the roads are so bad, we don't have a chance for a good run."
Change some events into 2WD vehicles only, just like in some other parts of the world.

Whiplash Rallye Sport
(Rallying is not a crime)
 

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As an organizer, what would entice me to reduce my turnout - in some cases by 2/3 - to be in the 2WD championship? IF this procedure were in place, it would EVENTUALLY lead to more 2WD cars, but you have a chicken/egg problem. Who foots the bill for the initial rampup?

Bruce
 

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>Should there be separate events for 2WD and 4/AWD vehicles?
>This would mean more events, but double the work.
>P, G2 and G5 vs. PGT, GN and Open.
>
>I always hear COMPETITORS complain that 2WD don't have a
>CHANCE driving with AWD cars and they always start in the back
>of the pack.
>Well, back of the pack means that you need to step up your
>speed factor anyway, but, 2WD competitors could battle it out
>among each other.

Just so long as you are willing to organize, work, and finance all these extra events. Some of us have all the work we can handle with one rally.
 

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Maybe if the community doubled in size and was split pretty evenly between 2WD and AWD... short of that I can't see how it would be practical.

By the way goofy answer choices aren't really the best way to take a serious survey, assuming you are serious.

Ian.
 

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>I heard some many times, "once all the AWD cars get through
>the roads are so bad, we don't have a chance for a good run."

I've got news for everybody: This complaint has been floated in various forms for the almost 30 years I've been involved. The roads got torn up when all the car were 2WD! Most of the time, it's a form of just complaining, IMO.

I don't support the separate events for 2WD and 4WD. I'll add another reason: the best events wold go to the AWD cars, IMO, since they are the fastest, and the top events would have to pcik the best cars.

Regards,
Mark B.
 

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Please...not here too ! They just done that up here in Quebec Canada. Banning the AWD for a 2WD championship. At the base it's a great idea, but it kick out all the AWD that were running on low budget out and left them with a big 15 car 2WD champioship !

Anyway, this debat as been poluting one of our rally forum for two year now... Sick of it...

It doubles the work
Splits the worker
Stretch the sources (workers, town, road...)
Splits the spectators (less at each events)
...
 

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I don't mean any disrespect by this comment - but if you are tired of "being at the back" and "getting chewed up roads" - um - buy or build an AWD car - learn to drive it fast = you then get to be at the front. Just a thought?
 

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I am not here anymore
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>>I heard some many times, "once all the AWD cars get through
>>the roads are so bad, we don't have a chance for a good
>>run."
>
>I've got news for everybody: This complaint has been floated
>in various forms for the almost 30 years I've been involved.
>The roads got torn up when all the car were 2WD!

There probably are some circumstances where AWD cars do rip up the road more than 2WD cars. However, what I observed in a rally where I worked as a road marshal (after DNF'ing on the first day), was that the cars doing the most damage were high horsepower rear wheel drive cars - John Lane's Volvo and Jay Street's ex-Jardevall Volvo.

Maybe the road damage problem is high horsepower cars and not AWD vs. 2WD?

alan
 

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>I don't mean any disrespect by this comment - but if you are
>tired of "being at the back" and "getting chewed up roads" -
>um - buy or build an AWD car - learn to drive it fast = you
>then get to be at the front. Just a thought?

Or... learn to drive like Doug Shepherd. Then you can have your 2wd AND be at the front.
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
>I don't mean any disrespect by this comment - but if you are
>tired of "being at the back" and "getting chewed up roads" -
>um - buy or build an AWD car - learn to drive it fast = you
>then get to be at the front. Just a thought?

Oh I don't take offence to anything said here, everyone has an opinion.
I have been in the sport for quite a few years (1977) and have pretty much driven everything out there.
This poll is just to see peoples opinions and thoughts.

Whiplash Rallye Sport
(Rallying is not a crime)
 

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I have never thought the AWD cars make the road bad. I think I do more damage in my Gp2 car out of turns then they do. I am the one spinng my wheels for like ever.

Lately I have been running as the 1st non AWD car on the road and have had no problem with ruts. It is more likely the cars behind are pissed about the road damage I created. The only problem I have is the AWD line is not always the same as the 2wd line and I have too little road clearing.

That said, I am more than happy to have a few 4wd cars sweep off most of the gravel for me. It makes me faster and is a lot better for tire life. Even if I need to take a slightly bad line here and there.

Do not like the results in your 2wd car, drive faster I am sure it has plenty of potential left in it. When I look at my incar video I see so many mistaks and lossed time - why build a new car till I have sorted all that out?

So in short, it would be fun to win events overall but we do not have the extra staff for more events and there really is no problem with 2wd cars running after AWD so things should stay the same.

Derek
 

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I have a cat.
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I see no reason for it. Instead of a whole parallel series, I could possibly see one year-end 2wd rally that decides the Woodner Cup and gives 2wd teams their moment to shine, but it's just not practical or beneficial to have 2 seperate series. I agree with Derek. Drive faster. The roads get torn up by very high hp cars, 4wd or 2wd. GN and certainly PGT cars aren't ripping up things any more than most 2wd cars.
 

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>I see no reason for it. Instead of a whole parallel series,
>I could possibly see one year-end 2wd rally that
>decides the Woodner Cup and gives 2wd teams their moment to
>shine, but it's just not practical or beneficial to have 2
>seperate series. I agree with Derek. Drive faster. The
>roads get torn up by very high hp cars, 4wd or 2wd. GN and
>certainly PGT cars aren't ripping up things any more than most
>2wd cars.

Better yet, give 2wd cars and their championship (the Woodner Cup) equal coverage and their own podium ceremony. If we can make 2wd important to the masses, those competitors who choose to have more fun might be able to gain more sponsorship, build better cars, and raise the level of competition.
 

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I have a cat.
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>Better yet, give 2wd cars and their championship (the Woodner
>Cup) equal coverage and their own podium ceremony. If we can
>make 2wd important to the masses, those competitors who choose
>to have more fun might be able to gain more sponsorship, build
>better cars, and raise the level of competition.

This makes sense for the general health of the sport in the US. Why? Because there aren't many companies that have a rally suitable 4wd car on the showroom, but nearly EVERY company has a suitable 2wd car. If you want the companies to get involved, you gotta give 'em some kind of recognition when they do well! They get involved for marketing, and if there is no shouting from the rooftops when they win, there is no marketing value. So they look to other series to spend their money. Simple.

Rally America has given it a good start with its class by class champagne sprays at events...just like the Euros do it.

Before they did it for us, we did it ourselves so we'd have the photo for our sponsors!

http://burmeisterrallysport.com/images/champagne.jpg
 

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Couch rallyist!
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>Better yet, give 2wd cars and their championship (the Woodner
>Cup) equal coverage and their own podium ceremony. If we can
>make 2wd important to the masses, those competitors who choose
>to have more fun might be able to gain more sponsorship, build
>better cars, and raise the level of competition.

The coverage isn't up to anyone here, it's always going to focus on the high horsepower AWD cars.

"Make 2WD important to the masses" is pretty funny, how about we make rally important to the masses first! The only guys who have sponsors builing their cars brought the sponsors with them from other sports, ones that the masses think are important.

Nobody in their right mind would consider running seperate events until there are simply too many entries to run a single event. Entry lists are really low to begin with, it would be suicide to split the field! And if it did get to the point where an event couldn't handle more cars, I promise you that they still won't run seperate events, there'll just be an entry limit.
 
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