Is allowing recca, the safest way to allow teams to go full speed on public roads? -Allowing recca is the way most performance rally is done all over
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What if the route book was available 2-4 weeks ahead of the rally?
This is what they do in Mexico.
Why not take a weekend before the rally and do recca for for a day or two? You would have plenty of time to do your own notes.
Opinions? Comments? Please.
Charles
Driver
MR2 #295
This is what they do in Mexico.
Why not take a weekend before the rally and do recca for for a day or two? You would have plenty of time to do your own notes.
Opinions? Comments? Please.
Charles
Driver
MR2 #295
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556 Posts
RE: What if the route book was available 2-4 weeks ahead of the rally?
Just how many vacation days do you think people have. If someone has a family, they need to use some of those days with them. If they do 5 events a year, they would use all the vacation days just on recce and the event. Now, I have never run an event... but come on. Not every one is independantly wealthy and do not have a job. Give it a rest and just run what is being offered. If it does not suit your taste, go over to Europe and run.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
Just how many vacation days do you think people have. If someone has a family, they need to use some of those days with them. If they do 5 events a year, they would use all the vacation days just on recce and the event. Now, I have never run an event... but come on. Not every one is independantly wealthy and do not have a job. Give it a rest and just run what is being offered. If it does not suit your taste, go over to Europe and run.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
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2,516 Posts
Recce and its issues
Just a few comments about recce:
1. It involves access to the roads, which can be an issue with gated, controlled, or private roads.
2. There are significant insurance and public relations issues with the concept of open recce.
3. Even with controlled recce, there is still a PR issue and a safety issue (open roads), as well as the requirement for more workers and more insurance.
4. Most competitors only have limited vacation/free weekends to go rallying, as well as limited budget.
5. I'm not sure that it is correct to say that most of the world uses recce if you are talking about entry-level rallying (i.e. ClubRally).
6. I doubt if you could make consistent notes without a lot of experience. Ask Pat Richard about his notes in Australia (or see if his post on this is still in the archives).
Adrian
Just a few comments about recce:
1. It involves access to the roads, which can be an issue with gated, controlled, or private roads.
2. There are significant insurance and public relations issues with the concept of open recce.
3. Even with controlled recce, there is still a PR issue and a safety issue (open roads), as well as the requirement for more workers and more insurance.
4. Most competitors only have limited vacation/free weekends to go rallying, as well as limited budget.
5. I'm not sure that it is correct to say that most of the world uses recce if you are talking about entry-level rallying (i.e. ClubRally).
6. I doubt if you could make consistent notes without a lot of experience. Ask Pat Richard about his notes in Australia (or see if his post on this is still in the archives).
Adrian
RE: What if the route book was available 2-4 weeks ahead of the rally?
It would be the way to go in my opinion but I don't think it is possible here in north america... I think we have to live with some of them already having recce like Charlevoix, Quebec and Cherokee trails and wish for some more in a near futur...
Julien Pilon
Lachute Subaru
It would be the way to go in my opinion but I don't think it is possible here in north america... I think we have to live with some of them already having recce like Charlevoix, Quebec and Cherokee trails and wish for some more in a near futur...
Julien Pilon
Lachute Subaru
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362 Posts
RE: Recce and its issues
Sorry this isn't Europe where we get a over a month of vacation a year. Most of us have 2-3 weeks to divide up between rallying and family.
Sorry this isn't Europe where we get a over a month of vacation a year. Most of us have 2-3 weeks to divide up between rallying and family.
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283 Posts
RE: What if the route book was available 2-4 weeks ahead of the rally?
Many things are required to do recce in the US. The biggest are:
Road use (and abuse)
Insurance
I know that MANY events can't get the roads for another weekend, and expect to have 30 cars run on them 4-5 times and have the roads in any condition to be used the next weekend. Permits are already hard to get.
Insurance costs money...
That being said, as this IS the US, if you throw enough money at it the problem goes away. I can see that dollar figure to be 3-4 thousand PER TEAM to have everything in place to do it, and to pay for road repair, and to "convince" the authorities it is "worth their while".. wink wink nudge nudge....
don't expect it to happen any time in the next 5 years, if at all... Enviro's have lobbys, and big dollars, we're just a bunch of nuts in the woods...
Many things are required to do recce in the US. The biggest are:
Road use (and abuse)
Insurance
I know that MANY events can't get the roads for another weekend, and expect to have 30 cars run on them 4-5 times and have the roads in any condition to be used the next weekend. Permits are already hard to get.
Insurance costs money...
That being said, as this IS the US, if you throw enough money at it the problem goes away. I can see that dollar figure to be 3-4 thousand PER TEAM to have everything in place to do it, and to pay for road repair, and to "convince" the authorities it is "worth their while".. wink wink nudge nudge....
don't expect it to happen any time in the next 5 years, if at all... Enviro's have lobbys, and big dollars, we're just a bunch of nuts in the woods...
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6,117 Posts
you sure are getting fixated on this topic aren't you?
too bad you're statement is pointless.
There are conditions which disallow some of the things done elsewhere, even as there are things we should be trying from elsewhere.
We should be forming clubs so that young, inexpeienced guys have an exsisting structure to come into instead of learning a bunch of wrong stuff on the inter-net and the TV and then making what should be embarrassing wrong assertions all over every forum.
If'n, he had a sense of embarrassment.
John Vanlandingham
too bad you're statement is pointless.
There are conditions which disallow some of the things done elsewhere, even as there are things we should be trying from elsewhere.
We should be forming clubs so that young, inexpeienced guys have an exsisting structure to come into instead of learning a bunch of wrong stuff on the inter-net and the TV and then making what should be embarrassing wrong assertions all over every forum.
If'n, he had a sense of embarrassment.
John Vanlandingham
RE: you sure are getting fixated on this topic aren't you?
>We should be forming clubs so that young, inexpeienced guys
>have an exsisting structure to come into instead of learning
>a bunch of wrong stuff on the inter-net and the TV and then
>making what should be embarrassing wrong assertions all over
>every forum.
>
This is not good, once again I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with John.
The club system is the basis of rally education in the rest of the world. You have to belong to a club before you can get a competition license. It is all a low pressure learning environment where you have an instant network of driver and codrivers who have been there and will help you get to where you want.
Rallying does not look like a video game. If you had an idea of what it was going to be like from playing X-box, then perhaps you should have researched the sport a little deeper before investing money in a car and telling everyone it is all wrong at the one clubrally you have taken part in.
The sport will continue to evolve and notes may well become a feature at club level in the future, but be prepared to pay for it.
But the comparison between a very well organized club rally such as Dryadquest to what you see in the WRC on speed is probably a lot more favorable then the comparison between yourself and Colin McRae.
Dave
Edit... Oh, and one other thing, recce is not how most club level events are done all over the world. National championship and above yes they generally allow recce or the use of stage notes. But not at club level, they are almost all still blind.
>We should be forming clubs so that young, inexpeienced guys
>have an exsisting structure to come into instead of learning
>a bunch of wrong stuff on the inter-net and the TV and then
>making what should be embarrassing wrong assertions all over
>every forum.
>
This is not good, once again I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with John.
The club system is the basis of rally education in the rest of the world. You have to belong to a club before you can get a competition license. It is all a low pressure learning environment where you have an instant network of driver and codrivers who have been there and will help you get to where you want.
Rallying does not look like a video game. If you had an idea of what it was going to be like from playing X-box, then perhaps you should have researched the sport a little deeper before investing money in a car and telling everyone it is all wrong at the one clubrally you have taken part in.
The sport will continue to evolve and notes may well become a feature at club level in the future, but be prepared to pay for it.
But the comparison between a very well organized club rally such as Dryadquest to what you see in the WRC on speed is probably a lot more favorable then the comparison between yourself and Colin McRae.
Dave
Edit... Oh, and one other thing, recce is not how most club level events are done all over the world. National championship and above yes they generally allow recce or the use of stage notes. But not at club level, they are almost all still blind.
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230 Posts
You're kidding, right?
"Why not take a weekend before the rally and do recca for for a day or two?"
Please... think about what you're saying.
"Why not take a weekend before the rally and do recca for for a day or two?"
Please... think about what you're saying.
RE: What if the route book was available 2-4 weeks ahead of the rally?
Sure why not?? We're all rich and retired, right? The organizers
can afford to close down these roads for an additional day or more.
We can all afford the time and 2x the expenses can't we?
Just close your eyes and listen to the co-driver more.
Ed
(yes VERY tongue in cheek here)
Sure why not?? We're all rich and retired, right? The organizers
can afford to close down these roads for an additional day or more.
We can all afford the time and 2x the expenses can't we?
Just close your eyes and listen to the co-driver more.
Ed
(yes VERY tongue in cheek here)
Joined
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1,194 Posts
RE: What if the route book was available 2-4 weeks ahead of the rally?
Oh give it up on the notes issue.
I gently suggest you take your energy and enthusiasm for the sport and put your efforts into finding a way to practice legally. At your stage of development as a rally driver the most productive thing you could do is practice driving the car in rally conditions. I believe that in the long run you will find that if you take this advice your efforts will be better rewarded than your crusade about notes.
Derek Bottles
Oh give it up on the notes issue.
I gently suggest you take your energy and enthusiasm for the sport and put your efforts into finding a way to practice legally. At your stage of development as a rally driver the most productive thing you could do is practice driving the car in rally conditions. I believe that in the long run you will find that if you take this advice your efforts will be better rewarded than your crusade about notes.
Derek Bottles
These are good topics.
I think we need to talk about these topics. I know it is good to hear everyones opinions and ideas.
I just wanted to hear if people thought recce was safer than blind.
Obviously time as great factor in this topic. I understand, I work hard too. What if we did one stage per rally with recca Friday night. Give the SCCA another way to make money? Hmm...
Charles
MR2 #295
I think we need to talk about these topics. I know it is good to hear everyones opinions and ideas.
I just wanted to hear if people thought recce was safer than blind.
Obviously time as great factor in this topic. I understand, I work hard too. What if we did one stage per rally with recca Friday night. Give the SCCA another way to make money? Hmm...
Charles
MR2 #295
RE: you sure are getting fixated on this topic aren't you?
Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). I think you said it very eloquently (look it up) for most of us and I, for one totally agree with your statements. Isn't it a crying shame that the ones who think they can improve what we do, are the ones that have literally no experience at all, when the majority have been involved in one way or another for over 20 years! I know who's experience and advice I would listen to.
Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). I think you said it very eloquently (look it up) for most of us and I, for one totally agree with your statements. Isn't it a crying shame that the ones who think they can improve what we do, are the ones that have literally no experience at all, when the majority have been involved in one way or another for over 20 years! I know who's experience and advice I would listen to.
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