[patr]

While we are on the subject, the FIA also says it is illegal to hold more than one license from more than one ASN simultaneously.

you may remember, for example, at CT they had a thing on the notice board from Kulig's home ASN saying he was "allowed" to enter the event (which kind of maybe wasn't necessary unless CT wasn't on the international calendar). In any case...

I know in the UK you are not allowed to use any US or Canadian licenses... I know that International licenses are not to be used in less than International events...

so what kind of license would a, say, French International driver use to enter Maine Forest rally ?

 

[323]

A frog licence.
Staphan

 

[AlanPerry]

patr wrote:
>I know in the UK you are not allowed to use any US or
>Canadian licenses... I know that International licenses are
>not to be used in less than International events...
>
>so what kind of license would a, say, French International
>driver use to enter Maine Forest rally ?

The USA and Canadian rulebooks specifically allow FIA licenses.

The SCCA rulebook (2.1.A.2.c) says that an "FIA license" is one of the allowed competition licenses for competing in ProRally or ClubRally events.

Similarly, the CARS rulebook (B.1.B.10) says residents of somewhere other than USA and Canada may compete if they hold an "FIA International License".

So, the French driver gets an FIA license and enters Maine Forest (or, say, Bighorn).

Where did you get the idea that an International licenses was not to be used in anything less than an International event? Is this coming from some European organizer or club?

When I was asking about co-driving in Europe, I was told that I could get an FIA "C" license from SCCA once I got my ProRally license and then I would need to get a license from the national club that I was going to compete in (supposedly a formality). Based on that, I would say that things work a little differently over there.

Ramble, ramble, ramble ...

alan

 

[saywhat]

This is a very good question and one that needs to be answered as far as a Canadian or USA licensed driver is concerned regarding running events in Europe, Britian, Scandanavia, Austrailia, New Zeland, etc.- what do we need to compete overseas in club or national rallies?

 

[AlanPerry]

Read my paragraph before "Ramble, ramble, ramble".

FIA license obtained through SCCA (do they get it from ACCUS or does the US have different ASNs depending on what kind of license you got?), then a local club license, depending on where you want to compete.

alan

 

[Pete Kuncis]

>so what kind of license would a, say, French International
>driver use to enter Maine Forest rally ?

Kinda like how Stig ran the Maine rally in 1999?

 

[saywhat]

I read your answer, did you do it and did it go the way your post states?
Pat-what did you have to do to get your license to run in Britian?

 

[patr]

I am asking because I know what is needed to go from USA -> Europe, but not the other way around. I am not asking people to quote the US + Cdn rulebooks ! I kinda have one too !

BTW what you are saying is wrong.

 

[saywhat]

What I think Pat is asking.

There are people rallying here on foreign competition license, yes or no, those that are he would like to know what you had to do in order to compete?
Anyone doing this chime in!!
I hope this is correct Pat, just trying to help.

 

[Claire]

RE: What I think Pat is asking.

David Higgins and codriver(s) are competing on SCCA ProRally licenses last I checked. When I was working for AVSport I was advised to apply for them before Lake Superior and did as directed by Denver.

This may have changed since then.

Claire

 

[AlanPerry]

What I am saying is wrong because ...

Geez, Pat, at least give me a hint here.

If the rulebook says that an FIA Intl. license is good enough, why isn't it good enough?

Taking Claire's comment as a hint ... Since, according to SCCA rules, one must be a SCCA member to compete in SCCA rallies, I guess one could go ahead and get a ProRally license under the "it's the at the PRSS's discretion" (which I won't bother to quote because Pat has a rulebook) rule, the same way that an American with a FIA license would get a local license in a European country.

alan

 

[jmullan]

I asked at the last Ojibwe meeting, and the response from the registrar was that a competitor may enter an SCCA ProRally with an SCCA membership and a competition license from SCCA, CARS, or the FIA.

The last that I heard, all US ProRally events got FIA listings so that international competitors could compete here. Last year I requested a graphic or instructions on producing a graphic or simply the appropriate wording to say that Ojibwe was FIA listed.

I think that my request got directed to national and it never came back.

 

[randyzimmer]

Here in the US, I'd go straight to the ACCUS rep, not these guys or me:
ACCUS (US FIA Rep) IL, Burdette Martin (847) 272-0090.
rz

 

[Jim]

Even *if* the SCCA rules accept an FIA license as valid, it does not mean an international competitor can use it in a ProRally if the FIA rules say they can't. I don't know the FIA rules, but that is what I got out of Pat's comments. Is that correct, Pat?

 

[patr]

yeah basically, for example, if you had a US FIA license, you could NOT go and use it in Europe at national level rallies, only international level rallies.

And if you had a euro international license, vice-versa. That is not in our rulebook but the national rulebooks of the european ASNs. It is always possible to get a one time 'written exemption' and also possible to 'revoke your license to your home ASN and get a temporary one in a new ditrict' but you cant do that 8 or 9 times a year.

It is also this way in Asia-Pac. For example, when I went to Australia I had to do get a one-time exemption, a written letter from my ASN saying my CARS license was revoked, and then get an Australian national license (one event). You have to do this EVERYWHERE you go internationally unless you are entering Internationally listed events on the FIA calendar.

The us events are not listed on the FIA calendar.

 

[AlanPerry]

When SCCA members get an FIA Intl. license, although you get the application from SCCA, does ACCUS actually issue the license?

>And if you had a euro international license, vice-versa.
>That is not in our rulebook but the national rulebooks of
>the european ASNs.

I thought the license was a FIA license issued by a particular (in your example, some European country's) ASN. Since it is an FIA license, how can the ASN dictate how it is used outside of the ASN? Of course, reading the FIA rules on this stuff just made me confused.

>It is also this way in Asia-Pac. For example, when I went to
>Australia I had to do get a one-time exemption, a written
>letter from my ASN saying my CARS license was revoked, and
>then get an Australian national license (one event). You
>have to do this EVERYWHERE you go internationally unless you
>are entering Internationally listed events on the FIA
>calendar.

OK, that would seem right based on what I read in the FIA rules.

>The us events are not listed on the FIA calendar.

Yeah, what's up with that? I couldn't even find CT, Wild West, Ramada Express, etc., which are supposed to be international events, on the FIA international calendar.

Anyway, back to the original topic, Europe and Asia (and Oz and NZ) are all part of the FIA championship infrastructure and follow the FIA rules more closer than North America anyway. I don't understand why the answer isn't that SCCA and CARS have their own rule regarding FIA
licensed competitors which is different from the rest of the world. It wouldn't be the first time that that was the answer to a question.

alan


alan

 

[johnfelstead]

The USA does not have an FIA sanctioned ASN.

The definition of an ASN is

"The National Sporting Authority (ASN) is the only recognised holder of the Sporting Power for all branches of motor sport in its country. The ASN is the direct motor sport representative of its country within the FIA. There is only one ASN per country"

a full list of ASN's is http://www.fia.com/homepage/selection-a.html
USA is conspicuous by it's absense.

As you guys have more than one body who claims rights to sanctioning rules in motorsport, you cant have ASN membership.

I'll check my blue book (the MSA rules book for all motorsport in the UK) as to what the rules are for National level licences and come back to you with some info. it should have info on me competing in the USA also.

 

[johnkshirley]

Patrick,

If you will check the FIA calendar you will see that Cherokee is a FIA listed event. I chcked will Burdie Martin, President of ACCUS (ASN for United States of America), I have bill coming!!! Wild West and Ramada will be listed by the FIA very soon. I only know of those events as FIA listed. Only ACCUS can issue FIA license when requested by an ACCUS member.

The only event listed on the FIA calendar in 2001 was Cherokee and Ramada.

Yes, ACCUS is the ASN for the USA. This is the listing on the FIA web page.

Etats Unis/United States (USA)
A.C.C.U.S.
1500 Skokie Blvd., Suite 101
NORTHBROOK
60062 Illinois
USA

Tel : 0018472720090
Fax : 0018472720101

President : Burdette MARTIN


Yes I posted the notice of Mr. Kulig's approval by the Polish ASN as required by the FIA and of all FIA listed events for FIA A or B seeded drivers. MSA did not send me a letter but an e-mail concerning Mr. David Higgins to the same effect. Mr. Mark Higgins and Mr. Mark Lovell are not seeded drivers and where not in the international event. Mr. Tom McGeer could be a FIA B driver but I did not check because he did not enter the International portion of the event.

A FIA national or International rally license may be requested of ACCUS by any memeber of ACCUS.

John K. Shirley

 

[johnfelstead]

damn french taking priority in there listings again.

Reading the Blue Book, i find the statement by pat that his international licence not being valid for national events a bit strange, as the blue book states a higher grade licence is always valid for lower permit events of the same disipline. I am sure pat knows what he is talking about as he is competing in the UK and USA/Canada but that doesnt tie with what the rule book says?

It also states that british international licence holders are entitled to take part in any event as long as it is on the FIA international callendar automatically. The licence has "valid as a visa, Article 70 ISC" so i dont see why the higgins brothers need any other licence than their UK International one?

 

[patr]

I am correct with what I am talking about (I have done it) and John Felstead you are correct in your citings, and John Shirley is correct in his statements.

What it all amounts to is what I already said, and the begging question of: what procedures are required NOT FOR Canadians/Americans to go overseas, but for overseas drivers to enter non-internationally listed US events (i.e. everything except Cherokee / WW).