Integrating Pro & Club seeds starting order
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G
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·RE: Integrating Pro & Club seeds - a good idea
I think it's a great idea, long overdue.
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John Dillon John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
I think it's a great idea, long overdue.
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John Dillon John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
Joined
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22 Posts
How did it work with regards to Pacenotes vs Routebooks? Are the pacenotes only allowed for competitors entered into the 'Pro' category?
If so, then it seems like they would be faster than their clubrally counterparts. Several people have posted that they could push harder with the pacenotes. Wouldn't this increase the chance of clubrally competitors being passed on stage, thus affecting those 'Pro' competitors positioned behind clubrally guys. (Based on the assumption that only the 'pro' entrants use the pacenotes, which was not clearly indicated one way or another on the literature and entry form for Rim).
Are the pacenotes available for everyone?
If so, then it seems like they would be faster than their clubrally counterparts. Several people have posted that they could push harder with the pacenotes. Wouldn't this increase the chance of clubrally competitors being passed on stage, thus affecting those 'Pro' competitors positioned behind clubrally guys. (Based on the assumption that only the 'pro' entrants use the pacenotes, which was not clearly indicated one way or another on the literature and entry form for Rim).
Are the pacenotes available for everyone?
Joined
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298 Posts
What about those folks entered in the Pro as well as the Club rallies? Do they get to use notes while the Club only folks don't have the option? If the notes allow you to push harder, which I believe they do, then it doesn't really seem fair now does it? The truly divisional guys will always be at a disadvantage to those who can afford to enter as both Pro and Club.
-Doug
-Doug
Joined
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2,759 Posts
I'm not 100% sure what this means; I interpret it to mean seed 3 club starts in front of seed 4 Pro, e.g. ?? Please elucidate....
If so, I sorta assumed that was one reason behind one combined seeding structure. Sounds good and fair, at least in theory. Hopefully the application will work out well.
I also hope it can eventually be applied to entry access: a higher seeding club car has preference over lower seeded Pro car at limited entry events (like here in the east). It could relieve a lot of angst out here, get the fastest cars in the event, and reward continued effort and participation over just freshly invested $$.
Mark Bowers
If so, I sorta assumed that was one reason behind one combined seeding structure. Sounds good and fair, at least in theory. Hopefully the application will work out well.
I also hope it can eventually be applied to entry access: a higher seeding club car has preference over lower seeded Pro car at limited entry events (like here in the east). It could relieve a lot of angst out here, get the fastest cars in the event, and reward continued effort and participation over just freshly invested $$.
Mark Bowers
Joined
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196 Posts
As far as I can tell, everyone has the option of running the "Stage Notes". We are going to use them at Rim, and we are but a lowly club only team...
Mark:
I don't fully object to your plan with regard to higher seed gets the entry regardless of club/pro but we would need to have a minimum entry per pro class: 3-5 slots reserved for P class etc.
(This could also lead to needing 3-5 cars for a class, or the class could be bumped to allow the fastest drivers to compete...)
Regards,
Mike
PS: I am a huge fan of the integrated seeding
I don't fully object to your plan with regard to higher seed gets the entry regardless of club/pro but we would need to have a minimum entry per pro class: 3-5 slots reserved for P class etc.
(This could also lead to needing 3-5 cars for a class, or the class could be bumped to allow the fastest drivers to compete...)
Regards,
Mike
PS: I am a huge fan of the integrated seeding
Joined
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459 Posts
i was suprised at how well it worked out!
i had my doubts... but it does seem to be the better (best?) solution....
and i didnt get passed by...
nor pass anyone until after i stumped it
and shoved myself to the back of the pack!
it seemed to work really great...
i did not hear one complaint about it...
doing the same thing at rim...
now if they could only get my seeding corrected...
Jamie (seed 6!!!)
www.subiegalracing.com
www.subiegal.com
i had my doubts... but it does seem to be the better (best?) solution....
and i didnt get passed by...
nor pass anyone until after i stumped it
and shoved myself to the back of the pack!
it seemed to work really great...
i did not hear one complaint about it...
doing the same thing at rim...
now if they could only get my seeding corrected...
Jamie (seed 6!!!)
www.subiegalracing.com
www.subiegal.com
>I'm not 100% sure what this means; I interpret it to mean
>seed 3 club starts in front of seed 4 Pro, e.g. ?? Please
>elucidate....
> Mark: That is exactly what it means, sounds pretty good huh?
>If so, I sorta assumed that was one reason behind one
>combined seeding structure. Sounds good and fair, at least
>in theory. Hopefully the application will work out well.
>
>I also hope it can eventually be applied to entry access: a
>higher seeding club car has preference over lower seeded Pro
>car at limited entry events (like here in the east). It
>could relieve a lot of angst out here, get the fastest cars
>in the event, and reward continued effort and participation
>over just freshly invested $$.
> Good point, if the cream of the crop is to be the "show"!
>Mark Bowers
>seed 3 club starts in front of seed 4 Pro, e.g. ?? Please
>elucidate....
> Mark: That is exactly what it means, sounds pretty good huh?
>If so, I sorta assumed that was one reason behind one
>combined seeding structure. Sounds good and fair, at least
>in theory. Hopefully the application will work out well.
>
>I also hope it can eventually be applied to entry access: a
>higher seeding club car has preference over lower seeded Pro
>car at limited entry events (like here in the east). It
>could relieve a lot of angst out here, get the fastest cars
>in the event, and reward continued effort and participation
>over just freshly invested $$.
> Good point, if the cream of the crop is to be the "show"!
>Mark Bowers
Joined
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298 Posts
Hmmm... Where did I get the idea that notes weren't available for Club only? Ahh, here we go. In the "When is it an unfair advantage" thread, Bradney says: "Course Notes are for PRO Rally ONLY. They are not avaliable to Club Rally (unless something has changed that I don't know about)."
You may want to do some checking before you count on getting the notes, Gabe, because I don't believe they were available for Club only entrants in Oregon...
So, if I enter the Pro and Club rallies, I can use notes whereas those entering the Club only cannot. Interesting.
-Doug
You may want to do some checking before you count on getting the notes, Gabe, because I don't believe they were available for Club only entrants in Oregon...
So, if I enter the Pro and Club rallies, I can use notes whereas those entering the Club only cannot. Interesting.
-Doug
Joined
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283 Posts
any entrant at a Pro event can get the notes, regardless of what level they actually entered.
Joined
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1,239 Posts
>You may want to do some checking before you count on getting
>the notes, Gabe, because I don't believe they were available
>for Club only entrants in Oregon...
>
>So, if I enter the Pro and Club rallies, I can use notes
>whereas those entering the Club only cannot. Interesting.
There were Club-only teams using notes at Oregon Trail. Quite a number of them, in fact.
Ben
Oregon Trail Chairman
(starting to catch up on sleep)
>the notes, Gabe, because I don't believe they were available
>for Club only entrants in Oregon...
>
>So, if I enter the Pro and Club rallies, I can use notes
>whereas those entering the Club only cannot. Interesting.
There were Club-only teams using notes at Oregon Trail. Quite a number of them, in fact.
Ben
Oregon Trail Chairman
(starting to catch up on sleep)
Joined
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2,759 Posts
>I don't fully object to your plan with regard to higher seed
>gets the entry regardless of club/pro but we would need to
>have a minimum entry per pro class: 3-5 slots reserved for
>P class etc.
Sounds like a plan to me. It would still achieve an idea of letting the fastest proven competitors run. (Hey, my ideal is to let everyone have fun, but the heroic effort of a 120 car field at Maine last year was clearly past a reasonable limit.) 5 cars cars reserved for National only classes would be approximately half the available slots for STPR and Maine; you would probably have to make the National reserved slot quantities higher for Open and N, to accomodate all those who are truly and seriously running for Pro Championships. But it would still open up plenty of slots for the faster Club cars to have a shot at competing in these events. (Hey, I have actually heard Kurt say that he really would love to have a Pro series of 20-30 cars so this would work! Kurt, I know I haven't quoted this exactly right, but it really is the essence of one of your statements.)
Ooooh..... but then that would allow some of those nasty "old" cars to get back in the hunt; I'd love it, but I wonder if certain "others" in the evil-empire would be open to it.
>
>(This could also lead to needing 3-5 cars for a class, or
>the class could be bumped to allow the fastest drivers to
>compete...)
I wouldn't do that. I would strongly recommend that National class eligibility based on the last year's or 2 year's competition level, like in the road race world, rather than on a event-by-event basis. There is too much competitor investment at stake to do this except on a long term basis. And eliminating a class on a per event basis could mess up any real National championship.
Mark Bowers
>gets the entry regardless of club/pro but we would need to
>have a minimum entry per pro class: 3-5 slots reserved for
>P class etc.
Sounds like a plan to me. It would still achieve an idea of letting the fastest proven competitors run. (Hey, my ideal is to let everyone have fun, but the heroic effort of a 120 car field at Maine last year was clearly past a reasonable limit.) 5 cars cars reserved for National only classes would be approximately half the available slots for STPR and Maine; you would probably have to make the National reserved slot quantities higher for Open and N, to accomodate all those who are truly and seriously running for Pro Championships. But it would still open up plenty of slots for the faster Club cars to have a shot at competing in these events. (Hey, I have actually heard Kurt say that he really would love to have a Pro series of 20-30 cars so this would work! Kurt, I know I haven't quoted this exactly right, but it really is the essence of one of your statements.)
Ooooh..... but then that would allow some of those nasty "old" cars to get back in the hunt; I'd love it, but I wonder if certain "others" in the evil-empire would be open to it.
>
>(This could also lead to needing 3-5 cars for a class, or
>the class could be bumped to allow the fastest drivers to
>compete...)
I wouldn't do that. I would strongly recommend that National class eligibility based on the last year's or 2 year's competition level, like in the road race world, rather than on a event-by-event basis. There is too much competitor investment at stake to do this except on a long term basis. And eliminating a class on a per event basis could mess up any real National championship.
Mark Bowers
Joined
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6,117 Posts
NEXT STEP: Integrating Pro & Club Finishing results.
What about that? Just Printing out the results in the order that they were with a small notation indicating if the car is in club or 'Pro'.
And printing stage by stage results in a COHERANT form starting with the fastest on the stage and decending by car NUMBER and time. per stage.
We have done this in the NW for years, and there picture which emerges is often very interesting.
Third try at posting this, stinking computer crap junk
John Vanlandingham
What about that? Just Printing out the results in the order that they were with a small notation indicating if the car is in club or 'Pro'.
And printing stage by stage results in a COHERANT form starting with the fastest on the stage and decending by car NUMBER and time. per stage.
We have done this in the NW for years, and there picture which emerges is often very interesting.
Third try at posting this, stinking computer crap junk
John Vanlandingham
Joined
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168 Posts
Actually it was a surprise to a number of us that they were allowed in Club and this will be a topic of discussion among the stewards. I am still not convinced that they pose an unfair advantage just because they must be purchased but when you get down to the club level I think they have the potential to be.
Bradney A. Boli
Over Exposure Racing
Honda Accord #311
Bradney A. Boli
Over Exposure Racing
Honda Accord #311
Joined
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118 Posts
Elucidate? Damn, now you've done it. I have not opened a Webster's in years. Im not even sure I know how to use it!
Boy, I guess the next step is champagne and caviar after a rally!:7
Thanks for attempting to elevate the I.Q. of our sport.;-)
...elucidate...hmmmm.... that should be under e's, right Mark?
Carlos
Damn, now you've done it. I have not opened a Webster's in years. Im not even sure I know how to use it! Boy, I guess the next step is champagne and caviar after a rally!:7
Thanks for attempting to elevate the I.Q. of our sport.;-)
...elucidate...hmmmm.... that should be under e's, right Mark?
Carlos
Joined
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2,759 Posts
Sorry, I lost my head and forgot my audience. Should we put a syllable limit on any word used on this forum?
Mark :7
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