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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
US Stage Rally Community:

I can't believe some of the stuff that has shown up on here in the past week. We (all of us) suffered a tragic loss. The accident happened the 11th. I'm sure on Monday the 12th the folks in Topeka were informed and shocked as we all were. Many got on here IMMEDIATELY and wanted to know how it would affect our sport...NOW. While some people probably are trying to come to terms with the incident by addressing a logical safety issue and offering up good suggestions, many are taking the opportunity to place blame where it ill belongs, and many more are making statements that pertain to the accident at hand that one simply cannot back up if they weren't there first-hand.

The national office of the SCCA subsequently TEMPORARILY suspended ClubRally only events on THURSDAY the 15th. That's 4 days after the event happened. Considering that I'm sure those 4 days were filled with meetings with risk management, insurance, and organizers, and considering the respect deserved by the victims, I do not think 4 days is an unreasonable amount of time to come up with an official bulletin about how this tragedy will affect our sport in the short term.

Those of you (and I know you are reading this) who did have to discuss and weigh all the options with risk management and had to make decisions, while still mourning the loss of spectators (we are all mourning a bit, whether we knew the guys or not...they were some of our own), I do not envy your position.

Now I will certainly be labeled a Club "apologist" or a weenie or a trooper in Spitzner's army or...and this one is real funny...one of those deep pocket Manufacturer types who owns the SCCA and dictates everything it does. The truth is I bang my head with the guys in Topeka too (quite a bit), but not this time. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now.

The forum has a purpose. Let's keep it constructive. It is all of our sport.

Eric
 

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RE: Bull Butter !

Eric,

Can you tell me, in all honesty, that you support SCCA's decision to suspend all club rallies ? If your answer is "no" than don't read the rest.

SCCA's reaction is not intelligent, therefore our reaction is not disgusting. Hell SCCA's is not even a reaction, it's a bloody reflex (see Pavlov's experiment).

You say you are banging heads with them regularly, why would any one have to bang heads ? They are supposed to be there for the sport not against it. Now if they don't know what they are doing and don't want to see that, we'll all bang heads for a while and find an alternative to them. This is a democracy we live in, and even the Senate has provisions for a Vote of Trust, here is my vote; I don't trust and/or support SCCA, I tolerate them and have to obide by their rules and regulations in order to compete, but I am the opposition, I know how it's done right and it's not the way they are doing it.

So if you want to go burry your head in sand go ahead but don't get disgusted if we object to SCCA's decisions.

I sincerely apologize if I sounded a bit harsh but I take rallying very seriously and most of all personally, I'd be damned if I'd let incompetants ruin a great potential.

Cheers

M.Samli

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
RE: Bull Butter !---huh?

>Can you tell me, in all honesty, that you support SCCA's
>decision to suspend all club rallies ?

I can tell you, in all honesty, that I did NOT sit with the Risk Management Dept., insurance adjusters, or any attorneys discussing the matter to find out what our options were, how the events are insured, and what the next step has to be to ensure the future life of our sport. If you were in on those meetings, only then will I listen to your educated decision about what the proper action should be.

If your answer is
>"no" than don't read the rest.

Although my answer is technically "no" (based on ignorance of the issues at hand) I will read on anyway.

>
>SCCA's reaction is not intelligent, therefore our reaction
>is not disgusting. Hell it's not even a reaction, it's a
>bloody reflex.

Exactly. Your reaction IS a reflex. If you stop and think about all the issues involved and legal "recommendations" that have to be followed, you may see that those damn bureaucrats in Topeka have had some tough decisions to make, and haven't just been throwing darts at a board after a tall popcorn and watching the latest Xmen movie.

>
>You say you are banging heads with them regularly, why would
>any one have to bang heads ? They are supposed to be there
>for the sport not against it. Now if they don't know what
>they are doing and don't want to see that, we'll all bang
>heads for a while and find an alternative to them.

Any sporting organization needs rules. When you have rules, you have disagreements. Your utopia organization doesn't exist. I am not saying that another organization cropping up is a bad thing...just saying that I will have issues with their rules, too, as will anyone who considers themselves competitive in any given class.

This is a
>democracy we live in, and even the Senate has provisions for
>a Vote of Trust, here is my vote; I don't trust and/or
>support SCCA, I tolerate them and have to obide by their
>rules and regulations in order to compete, but I am the
>opposition, I know how it's done right and it's not the way
>they are doing it.

Sounds like you have a good mission to start your own racing organization. I wish you luck (honestly). Heck, if it is successful, I may join it and race in it someday. I have other aspirations. Driving rally cars is more important to me than anything else in my life...certainly more important than trying to develop the most awesome motorsports organization from scratch. Different strokes...

>
>So if you want to go burry your head in sand go ahead but
>don't get disgusted if we object to SCCA's decisions.

I was supposed to take the bike to the dunes this weekend, but have to swap motors in the rally car instead and ready it for a track/test day. Have to bury my head some other time...too much work to do now.
>
>I sincerely apologize if I sounded a bit harsh but I take
>rallying very seriously and most of all personally, I'd be
>damned if I'd let incompetants ruin a great potential.
>

Well, I admire your passion. I also take it very seriously...as seriously as anything in life. I actually trust that Ralph et al. (who care about the sport as much as you or I) came to their decision based on informed advice from people who understand the ramifications of all the possible scenarios. The people who made the decision are rally people who want to see the sport have a healthy future as much as you and I.
 

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RE: Bull Butter !---huh?

I'm disgusted.
I think thats a bit dramatic. The rants and paranoia on this forum are understandable considering the lack of communication between the scca and the membership. Givin the direction of scca rally the last few years I don't think it's unreasonable to worry about the future of club rally. The scca could avoid alot of negative sentiment on this forum by treating the membership with a little respect, instead of treating us like mushrooms.
Damian Delezene
 

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RE: Bull Butter

Eric,

Please don't misunderstand my enthusiasm as arrogance, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anybody.

Here are some facts for you;

Item 1;

I wasn't there when they had the Risk Management Dept. meeting but if they were strong armed by the insurance company, all they had to say was "pay up and get the hell out", believe me there are alternatives to the insurance company they are using right now. It may be a bit more expensive but it's a lot better than suspending or cancelling a whole series and tell the organisers who spent time, money, resources and more importantly lost face to communities to wait and see. Why do you think I've been insured by Lloyds of London since 1989 ?
Now, if they were not strong armed by the insurance company and they took this decision on their own, there is no damn excuse for it, they are traitors, they must be disenfranchised, abolished, impeached or whatever.

Item 2;

I am a lawyer, and the case in hand doesn't call for a whole series suspension so your comment goes out the window. Until they make public the minutes of the meeting in Topeka and the way they came to the decision to suspend club rallies I'll be on their case like ugly on egg.

Item 3;

When rules make sense nobody disagrees, you educate your participants, your spectators and you present whys and hows, then nobody bangs heads. There will always be those who will try to bend or stretch, but that's the beauty of it.

Item 4;

Believe me I have nothing to do with any mission, I am just a selfish competitor who wants to rally, have fun and do it cheap.
More than 20 years ago I decided to take part in the rally scene as a competitor not an organiser, I left organising to those who claimed they can organise, so I kindly ask them to organise and be organised. I'm always ready to help for those who ask for help.

Item 4;

I can not believe that you think the decision was based on the inputs of true rally people. This seems like a chicken **** reaction more than a decision. No real rally person would put their name under a decision like this, and those who did and claim to be rallyists are nothing but burreaucrats pretending to be rallyists.


Good luck with the engine swap.

Cheers

M.Samli
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 
G

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Those who have not been personally affected by last
weekend's tragedy are expressing their anger and
frustration that has been seething for several
years.

There is nothing wrong with that.
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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My two cents...
Suspending any events does not make sence. What happened in PA can happen anywhere, Pro or Club event.
It was a tragic incident that had nothing to do with safety issues. Anyone can lose control over a vehicle and there is no pointing in a safe direction.
Other events like NASCAR, Sprint etc., have had tragic accidents happen. I don't see why anyone should be blamed.
It is up to us and organizers to keep the risk at a minimal occurance.
It's bad enough that this happened and people got injured and killed.
The family members will not feel better if we argue and fight or cancel all events.

Whiplash RallyeSport
 

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> Suspending any events does not make sence. What happened in PA can happen anywhere, Pro or Club event.

Apparently the SCCA doesn't agree with you.
 

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Please let folks deal with their anguish and anger

The recent accident has upset everyone; we all love the sport and we all tend to be folks who care a LOT about others. The reactions from folks on the forum range far and wide, as they deal with grief, anger, and the like. It is really normal for there to be a wide range of reactions to such thing. It is improper for me or anyone to try to tell others how to deal with grief and anger and hurt.

My reactions for the first few days was to say nothing; I felt it was more respectful, I did not know what to say, I did not want to hurt others, etc. These are all things that are built inside of me, and cause me to react as I do to these things. These aspects of me could be analyzed to expalin why I insisted on being a pallbearer for my sister after her sudden death, while my brother could not do it.

In this instance, some others HAD to some out and say somehting, anything, to try to deal with it; some were immediately into analysis and so forth. There will be a wide spectrum of reactions and methods of dealing with tragic events, and if anyone comes out foaming at the mouth, I would try as best as I can to not quash what they are saying, becasue I would know that, for a while, it would be their way of dealing with the crisis.

When you pile the Club suspension on top of the accident, things will get even worse; it's adding a blow to the hopes of many to have a place to rally, on top of the anguish over the recent deaths. Yes, there are some who are slamming SCCA for their actions. With the folks upset over the accident, that is part of what is going to come flying out when the suspension is added.

Please let us not try to dictate to others how to deal with emotional trauma; we will fail, and make things worse. I hope no one dislikes my saying all this, but it is life experience that tells me that all this is pretty normal, and you have to let folks talk, vent, do many things to deal with a tagic event.


Regards, and hoping to offend no one,

Mark Bowers
 

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RE: Please let folks deal with their anguish and anger

Don't forget that the decision to suspend ClubRally was made by the Board of Directors - volunteers - not the National Staff. If you have questions, direct them to your local Director.

Bruce
 
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