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Other Options

To lessen the burden on workers

To lessen the burden on organizers

Directly to insurance fees

Directly to sanction fees

To non-manufacturer winning teams

To increased marketing support for the series (very broad could be greatly refined)

To increased marketing support for top drivers (very broad could be greatly refined)

To improved scoring systems series wide

To improved saftey systems

To Course Notes

To timing equipment

To real-time GPS tracking/timing/saftey systems

To a spec class or one make class

Comment: Although the entry fees might seem steep for ProRally I still contend they don't cover the real costs of the events. Prize money seems frivolous. Lowering entry fees seems pointless when 50-100 entrants are willing to shell out the current fees to participate.
The organizers have no real reason to reduce entry fees until they are essentially compensated. (The sport is pay to play until marketing support exceeds reasonable need).

Althougth there is no clear answer to where to best spend money for the series, this is because there are so many options.

In the end, however a sponsor wants to spend money will be readily accepted by the community, but ranted about on the internet.

Looking forward to the future paved with gold,
Mike
 

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Four tree two remember Andrew
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RE: Other Options

What series sponsorship money?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
RE: Other Options

Just to make it really REALLY REALLY clear, the money is PURELY Hypothetical!!!!!!!


JBLewis
 

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Discussion Starter #5
RE: Other Options

>
>To lessen the burden on organizers
See Rally America
>
>To non-manufacturer winning teams
That's Prize money....
>
>To improved scoring systems series wide
Again, See Rally America
>
>
>To timing equipment
Ditto...
>
Anything else contributes, directly, or indirectly to a reduction in what the event is forced / required to charge.

I know Rally America now has the right to explore and develop sponsorship. I certainly expect that the funds they generate will be used to pay for timing gear, scoring and registrations systems, all of which will hopefully reduce financial and logisticval burdens on the event organizers.

JB
 

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RE: Other Options

Personnaly, I would like to see most of it going to defer costs of the sport, but I would also like to see at least token prize money. It's a shame that I have a much greater potential for winning a prize by taking my car to a demolition derby than to a ProRally.
 

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RE: Other Options

Why don't we start lowering costs by first geting rid of notes? There is a quick $150 an event right there. Give us that have been in the sport for years back our advantage of having ran the roads previously. Plus lower the organiser tasks that they have to keep track of also.
 

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Big Jump 800
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RE: Other Options

Notes are great! I can drive faster and SAFER with then than without them... they are WELL worth $150... that's one tire for pete's sake! I think you're almost alone in not likeing them Trevor... and as far as I know, YOU'VE never used them YET.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 

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RE: Other Options

>Notes are great! I can drive faster and SAFER with then
>than without them... they are WELL worth $150... that's one
>tire for pete's sake! I think you're almost alone in not
>likeing them Trevor... and as far as I know, YOU'VE never
>used them YET.
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

JB,

I will ABSOLUTELY use them. Not using them would be stupid. I'm not spending what I spent on the new car to not take advantage of every tool at my disposal.

My only real problem with notes is they allow the hired guns to come in and dominate. I liked it when our local guys in 4wd could keep up with the true National competitors.

This is just part of the elimination of grassroots rallying as we knew it. I didn't mind that, but the cost associated with it is getting to be a bit much. When are the costs of rallying at least going to hold even for a year? Its about double what it cost me to run events in 98.

Trevor
 

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400 flat to crest
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RE: Other Options

>Notes are great! I can drive faster and SAFER

You BELIEVE you are safer....... only time will tell.

Remember the guys at Maine, several driving for several miles all the while the co-drivers rattling off the nores or the route book and they were, we are led to believe, completely unaware they were off course.
Perception is a funny thing.


with then
>than without them... they are WELL worth $150... that's one
>tire for pete's sake!
I drive on crappy used Michelins because I have shown time and again _I_ can find grip better than most everybody I know, except probably other multi-year off road bike guys like Eric Eaton, or Mike Whitman.
See, I can trade my skill for the new tire's (soon to be gone) way new edge.
I cannot overcome the advantage of a person reciting off a piece of paper that the little kink ahead is "absolute", a piece of paper they didn't prepare but merely bought.

You young guys simply don't understand the resistance that MANY MANY people expressed was based on the obvious diminuation of the role SKILL would play in co-driving and how it would be shifted to merely buying the done notes and then reciting.

What skill does that demonstrate?


I think you're almost alone in not likeing them Trevor...

Wrong JB, there was much dissent but like most other recent innovations PS, this was OPENLY done at the demand of the British Visitors and as usual with SCCA, the request for public feedback was window dressing.
Many people I talk to gave up in disgust. And many find the published range of costs an absurd joke.
UPS the silly Note making machine to the local Organisation and have the routemaster drive thru in the course or checking the route and save "$6,800 to 9,400" per event.

And so it might take a bit of time for locals to get it right, they can learn, we all learned how to drive and go clicky clackey on these stupid crappy computers, local organsiers CAN learn to operate the machine.

And BS to must always be the exact same crew, somehow other places in the world some people HAVE done events with course note done by different crews and NOT DIED!!!

and as far as I know, YOU'VE never used them YET.

We all will because while it is not specifically required by the rules it is _de facto required _ since the advantage is too great to be overcome with skill or experience.
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

JB,(EDIT: Many) people (but not Mark Utecht) (there Mark is that better? :) ) like them cause they know they now sound like their idols on TV.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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Loose nut behind the wheel
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RE: Other Options

>JB, people like them cause they know they now sound like
>their idols on TV.

John,

I for one, take great offense at this last statement. Please don't make assumptions about why I do things without asking me first. I like notes for my own reasons and you don't seem to have a clue what they are.

Mark
 

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RE: Other Options

Well since we are off topic on notes again I'll say this: We were told that notes would be given to pro rally enterants, but were not, then once a few people had used notes the issue of paying for them was not a problem: We were screwed no doubt about it!
Oh and if one can't go fast without notes one should not go faster with notes!!! Logic would suggest one would be well over their head when the mistake comes...

Until we have a dollar figure I cannot comment as to spending series sponsor money-we do have to balance the sports needs and future and the sponsors investment/return if we want to continue.
 

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400 flat to crest
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RE: Other Options

Mark, you know that no offence was meant to anybody that the statement didn't apply to.

It's sorta like saying to a packed bar and shouting "Hey Ugly!" and if somebody says "Yeah?" well they appearantly knew it was directed to them, eh?

I have said that I still point out to beginners your results with the Omni as an excellent example of what can be done with a basically good car and skillful driving. YOU did pretty good Mark, _without notes_, you no doubt could do just fine without them now.

And you know there are stacks of people clamouring for these notes with barely half a season or in some glaring cases less than 5-6 stages in seed 9, or 10 or whatever, or maybe no experience at all, and YOU KNOW it was done as a demand from the from the UK teams, right?
It was to those the comments were directed to.

Relax a little, OK



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat











;)
 

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straight at T
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RE: Other Options

>Remember the guys at Maine, several driving for several
>miles all the while the co-drivers rattling off the nores or
>the route book and they were, we are led to believe,
>completely unaware they were off course.
>Perception is a funny thing.

That had more to do with not marking the no-go road correctly than it had to do with the notes. The exact same situation could have occurred with a route book and an odo that was slightly off (say 3 tenths in 5 miles).

>You young guys simply don't understand the resistance that
>MANY MANY people expressed was based on the obvious
>diminuation of the role SKILL would play in co-driving and
>how it would be shifted to merely buying the done notes and
>then reciting.
>
>What skill does that demonstrate?

I find that the codriver's workload has increased significantly, and that the notes develop new codriver skills - delivery and timing of the information being the most important. They also mean that I don't have to recalibrate to each routemaster's squiggles (tulips) each rally, some of which accurately portray the corners and some of which portray some other corner than the one they are intended to... (and some of which are different for different runs of the same stage).

BTW. All four drivers I've run notes with like them.

Adrian
 

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straight at T
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RE: Other Options

>To lessen the burden on workers

I would like to see some of it go to the event workers to defray their expenses or to provide perks to them.


>To lessen the burden on organizers
>
>Directly to insurance fees
>
>Directly to sanction fees

Providing money to organizers or to pay fixed fees would allow them to either provide more services or to reduce entry fees (or pay for some of the stuff that currently comes out of their own pockets), providing indirect benefits to the competitors while helping to maintain the financial health of the events.

>To improved scoring systems series wide
>
>To improved saftey systems
>
>To Course Notes
>
>To timing equipment
>
>To real-time GPS tracking/timing/saftey systems

Any of the above would be a good use too. The Canadian series sponsors paid for marshals' vests that go to every event and allow the various types of official to be quickly identified.

>To a spec class or one make class

I think that this really needs long-term manufacturer support to happen.

>Comment: Although the entry fees might seem steep for
>ProRally I still contend they don't cover the real costs of
>the events. Prize money seems frivolous.

Agreed. IMO prize money at the levels provided in the events I've been to would have been better spent on more trophies or more perks for the workers. This is an amateur sport, and shows no real signs of changing in the near future.

>Lowering entry
>fees seems pointless when 50-100 entrants are willing to
>shell out the current fees to participate.
>The organizers have no real reason to reduce entry fees
>until they are essentially compensated. (The sport is pay
>to play until marketing support exceeds reasonable need).

Which is probably the most important point. I hate to think how much of my own money I spent when I was organizing/helping organize events, but I'm willing to bet that it was more than a competitor was paying to enter the event.

Adrian
 

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Loose nut behind the wheel
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RE: Other Options

>oh, you do too! Jeffy even tells me you guys are learning
>Spanish so you can sound like Carlos and Moya!
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

No habla inglés.

MumbleMumbleMumbleMumbleMumble.....RRRAAAAAAAASSSS!

Marcos DeUtecht

¿Yo quiero taco bell?
 
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